Mage OP

[Selkie]

I play a lot of mages and fully recognise they're the most powerful class in the game. I recently reviewed every mage spell in 4.2.1 and I called out mass banishment as OP. That said, I don't think anything should change.

Wobbly makes the best point in the thread, that boring players will find boring ways to play. I deliberately don't use the create door spell because it's too easy to abuse in a boring way. On the other hand, I love randart loot and clearing entire vaults with a single spell just seems like a great time saving mechanic, so not boring.

There are so many ways to make Angband harder if you're finding it too easy, like iron man games etc.

If I had to say anything was OP then I'd say high elf needs a nerf. Apart from a slight XP gain penalty it's as good a mage as a gnome, without any of the disadvantages.

[Hounded]

Originally Posted by wobbly

I agree with nerfing dimension door (too reliable/powerful) and would not be bothered by nerfs/changes to create door which is a silly spell anyway. I think my opinion of Banishment cheese is boring players will always play boring and people who want to play interesting will find ways to keep things interesting. I dislike the idea of a stat drain mechanic unless you particularly like annoying people.

^ ^ ^ ^
This.

[ewert]

Originally Posted by archolewa

it just sort of became clerical work. I was so bored that when I got killed by

I think for experienced players, it all boils down to this with any character at the end-game. Including the ending.

[ewert]

Originally Posted by Selkie

I deliberately don't use the create door spell because it's too easy to abuse in a boring way.

I think this is a good indicator whether something is broken in a single-player game, if people intentionally do not use it as they feel it is broken.

For me, it is rings of escaping on shooters/mages. I have not checked new version rings, but especially for mages, if the malus is only a reduced success rate modifier, it is too good. I literally instantly squelch them in 100% of my games, even ones where I play ranged/caster.

As an aside, and it will effect mages especially, if they do not yet cause an increased MINIMUM failure rate, they really should. Not sure how bad the to-hit malus is nowadays, as, well, I delete them.

[Nick]

OK, so my feeling so far is leave Banish/Mass Banish as they are, do the Door Creation change (unless someone has a better idea for changing it), and nerf Dimension Door a bit. So the next question is, what do people think of my suggested changes to Dimension Door relative to each other, or is there something better?

My feeling is that option 2 is kind of a safe change; option 1 I may have missed something and it will be a pain to implement, but I think it would feel more like a high-level spell, and it has the potential to lead to interesting decisions for the player (which is what we're really aiming at).

[Squeak]

I think option 1 is more interesting, but if it's not requiring any energy, what is preventing the player from continuing to cast it until they are in a favorable spot?

[Sphara]

I'd nerf (or remove) Dimension Door and a mage would still be the strongest class in the game by far. Fully controlled teleport is just something this game does not need.

I'm good keeping endgame mages as they are: super powerful. That said, having the current spell set, mage is not the hardest class to start. Necromancer and Ranger are much harder.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Squeak

I think option 1 is more interesting, but if it's not requiring any energy, what is preventing the player from continuing to cast it until they are in a favorable spot?

Mana cost of about 80, so a strict limit on casting more then 4-5 times in succession, even if you're happy with running your mana right down.

[ewert]

I think Dimension Door could be:

Controlled phase door range port
Takes energy
As in an improved Phase Door
Low mana cost

OR

Change name to Blink Step
Have it be a zero energy controlled LoS only Phase Door
High mana cost

edit: in either case, observe Vault rules...

[Selkie]

How about there's a one in ten chance that the mage teleports into the wrong dimension when casting dimension door. In these instances it's a single combat style cell with one or two greater demons. It would really make you think twice about spamming it