Randarts - harder or not?

[Chud]

Do people find randarts games generally harder or easier (or same) than standard artifacts?

In general I prefer standard artifact games, I think; I like the more colorful history-bearing descriptions of artifacts, and I think the artifacts are also better balanced---understandably, since they were designed rather than randomized.

In my current randarts game, the only one I've gotten very far in, I find most of the artifacts to be pretty much useless. (Really, at DL 55 you give me an artifact that has +3 tunneling, +3 infravision, resist electricity and cold, and activates for a 12HP stinking cloud every 75 turns??) But then once in awhile there's one that seems almost over-powered.

Taken as a whole they seem a bit waeker though---at least that's kindof how it feels so far.

[Derakon]

It's varied. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, but with much wider variance than in the standard game. I've had randart games where I literally maxed every single stat (getting them to 18/***), and ones where I was struggling to survive at for 90% of the dungeon because damage and speed simply would not drop.

Randarts will get you things that standarts simply never generate, though. I had a 3.1.2 priest get an amulet that gave +3 shooting speed. Ever see a priest with a gatling gun? Naturally extra shots, extra blows, and off-weapon slays/brands have all been rebalanced since then, but you can still find stuff like light sources that improve your to-hit and to-dam, or shields with telepathy, or boots with elemental immunities. Not necessarily overpowered stuff, just different.

[debo]

This is cheeseball, but I usually dump my randarts spoilers before I even bother playing with them. If there at least some decent ones, I'll restart a dude with same randarts. Otherwise, I'll regenerate.

The current standarts set is pretty balanced, with something for everyone. I guess we can't expect an RNG to come up with something close to that

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Chud

Do people find randarts games generally harder or easier (or same) than standard artifacts?

standard arts are better balanced IE. you get everything you want from them eventually. That's not the case with randarts. With randarts you might get something insanely good in one category and find other category entirely lacking artifacts.

Trick is to learn how to cope with those lacking parts. If you get that done randarts can be fun. That said, I play mostly with standard set. Somehow some legendary artifact in standard set is truly legendary, while similar power randart is just glorified ego weapon to me.

[Mondkalb]

Every now and then I do a game with randarts. Most times the weaker starting artifacts you get will suck. Currently I am playing with randarts and had things like an artifact cloak with rAcid. Duh!
You can get lucky with the better artifacts; often they have a wider range of abilities and it may be easier to cover all resistances than it is with standard artifacts.
I agree that standarts are ususally better balanced.

[Derakon]

Originally Posted by Mondkalb

Currently I am playing with randarts and had things like an artifact cloak with rAcid. Duh!

I'll note that the Cloak of Thorongil literally used to be a cloak with resist acid and nothing else (or maybe just resist acid and Free Action; it's been awhile). Reason being that there was no "item is immune to acid damage" flag; instead, only items that granted resistance or immunity to acid were protected. So Thorongil was basically a rustproof cloak.

[fizzix]

I'll also note that due to the way items and artifacts are generated, you will generally find less randarts early (unless you get a particularly lucky set). I can't remember the exact numbers but over the course of the game there was something like a 10% reduction in artifacts found in standart games, and most of the difference was early on.

[Estie]

Randart games are definitely harder, but not spectacularly so. People who can get to endgame on a regular basis with standarts can do the same with randarts.

I play with randarts because I like the item combination puzzle and as noted by previous posters, the standart set is very balanced so there isnt much variety with that. Also, I want to be surprised. Once I have found Isildur in a randart game, Ill never have to pick up a full plate mail again. With randarts, the next one could be +4 con and fire immunity.

I have no problems with the occasional resists-acid-and-nothing-else type randarts; junk is junk wether its indestructable or not. Why would anyone name it the Cloak of Hero then ? Maybe a tricksy black market vendor sold it to him and pretended it would give fire immunity. When he met the next great hell wyrm, he learned of his error the hard way, but the cloak still remains.

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Derakon

I'll note that the Cloak of Thorongil literally used to be a cloak with resist acid and nothing else (or maybe just resist acid and Free Action; it's been awhile). Reason being that there was no "item is immune to acid damage" flag; instead, only items that granted resistance or immunity to acid were protected. So Thorongil was basically a rustproof cloak.

That must have been really ancient reason, since ignore -flags are already in 2.7 -versions, and all artifacts are automatically given all four of those (v_list.txt just doesn't list those for that reason).

Thorongil had both FA and SI in addition to rAcid, so not completely useless. It was a lot harder to get basics in old versions than it is now, FA and SI in single non-ring item was a good one.

[brownbear]

Around what version was it when you could bargain with shopkeepers, and race/charisma mattered in store prices?

The only other thing I remember is that Rings of Speed (+1) meant double speed. That was the first version I played!

And speaking of randarts, I ran a game the other day and found a 9d3 fire/slay evil branded whip with +2 attack speed somewhere before 2000...and of course died because I thought I was invincible shortly afterwards.