Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 4, 2011, 06:54   #1
smileyy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
smileyy is on a distinguished road
What purpose money?

I hope this isn't too off-topic for Vanilla, but it seems like a reasonable place for gameplay discussions.

I'm thinking about concepts for a more canon-like variant, so I'm trying to understand the role of money in the game. I take for granted the fact that I find stuff in the dungeon, and sell it and buy stuff in town. But, outside of the Black Market, things purchased in town dwindle to nearly nothing past, say level 20 or so. Mostly its CCW pots, scrolls of recall and identify, staves of identify and teleport self, and wands of teleport other.

I'm of the opinion I've seen elsewhere on here that the Black Market is a little out of place with some of its items. I think this is especially true the closer one wants to get to Tolkien canon.

I guess my question is, outside of the Black Market, how can one make money or other dungeon-found resources an interesting feature later in the game? I have a few rudimentary ideas, but I'd love to hear others thoughts:

1. Eliminate money completely. This would seem to fit canon rather well, as, while there was an economy in LOTR, very little was ever mentioned about anyone having it or spending it, short of treasure hoards. I don't like this answer, because it takes a long-standing component out of the game. I remember tunneling through mineral veins to find gold, and it seems weird to take that out.

2. Make a very money-poor world, so you can buy very little in the early game, then pick up critical items mid-game. I feel like this doesn't really solve the endgame problem at all, though.

3. Use it as part of a crafting system, to pay for services in the world that one's own crafting skills to accomplish. E.g., a character with blacksmithing skills would pay to have potions created that an alchemist-skilled player would be able to make, or buy rare crafting resources.

4. Have ongoing repair/re-enchant/cost-of-playing services required for gold on the surface. This doesn't seem very fun. You're playing the game to pay a tax to play the game.

5. Make items like !Healing or !Speed available in stores other than the Black Market, but at very high prices relative to player gold. This might make the game too easy, and grindier, as players just make gold trips to the dungeon to buy useful supplies.

6. Be able to get quests from something like a Mathom House, where you trade powerful items into a museum in exchange for other useful items, like in (5).

I'd love to hear what other people think. Apologies if this isn't the right place for an open-ended brainstorming kind of post.
smileyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4, 2011, 07:17   #2
Scraper
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Osaka, Japan.
Posts: 99
Scraper is on a distinguished road
I find money to be a little challenging at the start and middle game.

I usually have to buy my first _teleport and _iD. So they usually keep me tight at the start of the game.

!stat go for 24k in the BM, so that usually depletes all my cash until past stat gain. Also as a caster, books usually cost an arm and a leg as well.

In my current game dwarf paladin (terrible Cha) there was a ?*acquirement* being sold at one point for 600k. Needless to say I wasn't able to buy it. But I could afford it now .

Money is really trivial past stat gain imo, but until past stat gain I find it a minor challenge.

I think being able to re-enchant your gear back to starting values is probably a bad idea. It would really trivialize my greatest fear... getting your gear disenchanted to hell and back. If I could just pop back to town and get all my gear back to the way I found it, I wouldn't worry about disenchanters at all and would melee them without a second thought.
Scraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4, 2011, 07:56   #3
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 8,759
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Excellent topic.

First, if you're interested in developing a true-to-Tolkien variant, I'd suggest you have a look at some of the things I've done in FAangband. Thematic consistency has been one of my aims; that said, you should of course do what you want.

As far as money goes, I have been struggling with that too. I am seriously considering removing shops altogether; probably I will keep money, but I have played with the idea of ditching it.

I think on the whole that I don't see having lots of money and nothing to spend it on in the late game as a problem. There are plenty of aspects of the game that essentially become a non-issue after a while, and gold can be just another of those.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4, 2011, 08:06   #4
Gockel
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 69
Gockel is on a distinguished road
one possibility that comes to my mind is making the shopkeepers a bit more greedy. leave prices the way they are now, but as soon as a shopkeeper realizes you "like" one item he'll reconsider his pricing policy...
meaning that every time you buy an item it will get more expensive (let's say +1/4 of the current price...though maybe linear scaling would be better).
could be a bit difficult to scale if you want to keep consumables affordable, but i guess it would make money more interesting.

an interesting side effect would be that you start wondering if you can survive without potions of !CCW for one more dive in order to buy a bigger stack for the still low price later. could even make !CLW and !CSW more interesting as an early game alternative in order to keep the price for !CCW low...
anyway, just an idea...
Gockel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4, 2011, 09:00   #5
Scraper
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Osaka, Japan.
Posts: 99
Scraper is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gockel View Post
one possibility that comes to my mind is making the shopkeepers a bit more greedy. leave prices the way they are now, but as soon as a shopkeeper realizes you "like" one item he'll reconsider his pricing policy...
...
If the BM did this for !stat etc. it would be pure evil... Great idea.
Scraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4, 2011, 21:14   #6
smileyy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
smileyy is on a distinguished road
Thanks for the feedback. I think the issue is sale of equipment. That is, there should be no one around to offer you $BIGNUM gold for selling them Power Dragon Scale Mail for the 11th time.

I think I like a gold-poor world (IIRC, that was in OAngband), with a Mathom House offering bounties of some kind on artifacts and other powerful or interesting items.

Perhaps occasional windfalls (Smaug's hoard, etc.) as well, and the ability for players to leverage those.
smileyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2011, 00:45   #7
Roch
Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 103
Roch is on a distinguished road
To me, buying and selling works thematically, especially in, e.g., Nick's First Age variant. To take it even further, where different towns are present, each town could specialize in selling folk-appropriate gear. For example, in Belegost the dwarrows would reasonably be expected to market the weapons and armor that they forge, and in Menegroth the Sindar would reasonably be expected to market their cloaks, bows, and arrows. Staples should be found everywhere (everyone eats), but maybe expensive items only in the larger towns.

In Vanilla, the town is generic and so there can be no such division of goods among merchants. I suppose concessions need to be made for the expedient of locating a town at the mouth of Angband. But the concept of buying and selling things as implemented in what to me is a fairly minimalist form I think fits well enough. Contrast with the metropolises of Z+.
Roch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2011, 01:11   #8
smileyy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
smileyy is on a distinguished road
This sounds like good motivation to play a bit of FAAngband. I think we have similar goals, but I'm planning to include all 3 (or maybe 4) ages.

I like the idea of "we buy and sell this specific stuff", with an added twist of "we want this stuff as raw materials for the stuff we make".
smileyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2011, 12:27   #9
artes
Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In his house at R'lyeh
Posts: 113
artes is on a distinguished road
In my opinion, shopkeepers pay too much for items they buy from the player. Reduce the amount they are willing to pay to 10% of the shop price of the item. This allows the shop-keepers to make a better profit. It also makes sense economically since the price of junk would be low close to the source of supply, with all the junk that players take out of the dungeon. Also it has some of the advantage of the "no sell" option in that it discourages the player from carrying around a lot of junk to sell, but it still leaves the possibility to sell things for a small profit if the player wants to.

Last edited by artes; October 5, 2011 at 20:49.
artes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2011, 13:43   #10
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by artes View Post
In my opinion, shopkeepers pay too much for items they buy from the player.
That is a good point. I would not go quite as far as you, but currently if you have 18/220 CHR items bought and sold go for same amount of money or near same amount of money, and that is bit too generous for shopkeepers.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bug report - money not updated jens Development 0 June 18, 2011 22:20
Limit for money drops? Timo Pietilš Development 10 June 2, 2011 21:49
Squelch money Derakon Vanilla 10 June 15, 2010 19:15
The all-purpose politics flame-diversion thread... Seany C Idle chatter 4 January 27, 2010 22:42
Purpose of social status in Vanilla 3.1 Phoenix21692 Vanilla 1 January 13, 2009 17:10


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.