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Old February 7, 2017, 18:01   #11
Pete Mack
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* for variety.
+ it provides variety
- it makes the game too easy

Should not end up with Soulkeeper equivalent in the cloak slot.
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Old February 7, 2017, 20:36   #12
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OK, looks like people don't want them to change much. What I intend to do, then, is
  • Fully randomise rings, amulets and lights
  • Incorporate the new curses properly
  • Sundry code improvements that might lead to minor differences in the algorithm
and then see how we're going. Some possibilities for later consideration include
  • Some tweaking of the current artifact set (along the lines of PowerWyrm's thinking)
  • Remove the weak brands
  • Remove off-type slays, brands, extra might, extra shots and extra blows
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Old February 7, 2017, 20:46   #13
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You'll get pushback from some players on the randart lights, I expect. Much as some players dislike the predictability of randart lights, others appreciate the "guaranteed" access to Light Room and Enlightenment effects (probably more the latter than the former). I'm not saying don't do it, just be ready for people to decry your iron-fisted rule.

I'm personally less enthused about removal of off-weapon slays/brands than I am about extra shots/blows/might. Off-weapon slays/brands are a bit tricky to get right, in a balance sense, but I think they're really nifty abilities that do a lot to shake up the "calculus" of optimizing your gear.
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Old February 7, 2017, 21:08   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
If you play with randarts, please tell me
  • Why you play randarts instead of standarts (whether sometimes or always)
  • What you like about current randarts
  • What you don't like about current randarts
  • Any other things you think might be relevant
(based on 4.0.5
1- Variety
2- Variety
3- The periodic totally lame item- e.g. gloves that only give free action,
4- I like the idea of integrating standarts and randarts as you mention in the other post.
I'd also consider lifting cap on number of randarts. I know this would change balance between standart and randart game, but this would minimally affect speed divers, and give more variety to people who go a little slower. I know many won't like this suggestion, but you asked!
I do think artifact sets might be cool.
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Old February 7, 2017, 21:19   #15
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I don't play randarts... yet (still enjoying standarts too much to feel the need to make the switch just yet ). But what's the reasoning for wanting to get rid of extra shots/blows/might? These are good things for the game.
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Old February 7, 2017, 22:00   #16
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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
I don't play randarts... yet (still enjoying standarts too much to feel the need to make the switch just yet ). But what's the reasoning for wanting to get rid of extra shots/blows/might? These are good things for the game.
Direct damage bonuses that aren't tied to your weapon are very hard to balance correctly. The power of a pair of gloves with +1 blows is effectively a percentage boost to the damage of whatever the strongest weapon you find is, which is potentially very powerful indeed...and potentially not that great if you have bad luck with weapons. Ditto with extra might. Extra shots is just a bad idea in general because of how huge the multiplier is.

Weapons and launchers could still get generated with extra blows/might "directly" on them, because then you can only get the bonus if you're using that weapon/launcher. That's a lot easier to balance; a dagger with +1 blows has a pretty tightly constrained power.
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Old February 7, 2017, 23:34   #17
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Well the game recently was nice enough to generate a bladeturner with +2 blows, and not *A* single big die weapon, to balance it out.
In another, i found a weapon with 5d8 base, no slays, no brands, no activation, (+6,+8) and resist fear.whoppitydo.
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Old February 8, 2017, 01:01   #18
Pete Mack
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Nick--extra shots and blows are fine. Just limit the maximum effective multiplier* to 8 or so (lower for bows), and things are fine.


*. (Base+might)*blows
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Old February 8, 2017, 07:03   #19
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I play randarts because I like not knowing what kind of stuff I'm going to have to work with.
I think the current randarts are fine, although the occasional one that gives +9 to a stat is a bit wierd (Playing nightlies, Dec 30 atm).
My biggest problem with the randarts is that high stat bonuses are much more common, with +4 or +5 being commonplace, meaning that its almost too easy to maximise all of the relevant stats.
I think that speed should be fairly evenly distributed between the different randart types, such that if you find a nice set of boots that don't give speed, you don't feel like you'll have to use a different pair of boots to get enough.
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Better to be down a point in INT than be suffering under 300HP at dl 70.
I should probably take note of this.
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Old February 8, 2017, 08:03   #20
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Quote:
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[*]Some tweaking of the current artifact set (along the lines of PowerWyrm's thinking)
I think it might be interesting to explore a) having no option to choose between randarts and standarts, and b) allowing both full sets, and c) significantly weakening the standarts. (Though I suspect it would be very controversial.)

I hypothesize that this should make it a bit less frustrating to cover everything you need, but still give varied and interesting gameplay via interesting choices (assuming limits on inventory/home).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
[*]Remove off-type slays, brands, extra might, extra shots and extra blows[/LIST]
I don't really understand the desire to do this. AFAICT these things are so rare in practice that they are not a problem in any way.

(If you see a lot of it on the ladder, then that just people people tend to post characters that win... and characters that find these types of items tend to win. Plus there's an option to retain randart sets between games, so it's pretty feasible to scum and just play with that set. Must be a least some players who do that. Honestly, I've never understood why that option is there -- unless it's for debugging... in which case, just let players *specify* the seed -- no need to go through the clumsy option system.)
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