Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Obsolete > v4

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 4, 2013, 20:48   #11
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 995
Antoine is on a distinguished road
How about leaving the speed stat as it is, and adding another similar stat that only reduces the cost of the movement action?

Then some items and abilities could be changed to affect movement instead- which would be weaker. You could also add low level consunables affecting movement. Or give bonuses to it based on race, class, or dex.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 22:00   #12
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
Antoine's idea sounds good to me!

I got an idea for Halls of Mist out of this thread: mystical zones where everybody's speed is set to 0.
Mikko Lehtinen is offline  
Old April 5, 2013, 04:30   #13
OOD Town drunk
Adept
 
OOD Town drunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Washington state
Age: 34
Posts: 171
OOD Town drunk is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud View Post
There's possibly too much of it. Getting much more than +7/+8 from any single item should be a once-a-game occurrence. Conversely, there could be more +1/+2 bumps to ego mittens, hats etc. Why should cloaks have all the fun? Basically, it's currently too easy to get a base speed of +30 with minimal compromise to kit.
I like this idea
OOD Town drunk is offline  
Old April 15, 2013, 16:21   #14
Starhawk
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Indianapolis IN, USA
Posts: 246
Starhawk is on a distinguished road
It'd be interesting to introduce higher speed costs / aka "casting times" to really powerful abilities - perhaps offering both players and monsters a chance to dodge or interrupt.

> The drolem takes in a deep breath...
> You cast Teleport Other.
Starhawk is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 14:02   #15
MattB
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,095
MattB is on a distinguished road
Okay, hands up, I'm a bit of an idiot and I don't have a clue about coding (I'm not even sure which type of pencil you use to do it), but could someone PLEASE explain the maths behind speed?!

As I understand it, +10SPD is twice as fast, but increases beyound +30 are marginal returns. How does this work?

Derakon's post earlier hinted at it, but to be honest I didn't really get it.

Apologies for interrupting a high-powered thread with a newbie query.
MattB is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 14:25   #16
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,001
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB View Post
Okay, hands up, I'm a bit of an idiot and I don't have a clue about coding (I'm not even sure which type of pencil you use to do it), but could someone PLEASE explain the maths behind speed?!

As I understand it, +10SPD is twice as fast, but increases beyound +30 are marginal returns. How does this work?
It's not an outright formula. There's an array mapping between speed values and "energy costs." I believe it's in tables.h, but I haven't checked for sure.

When you do an action you expend N energy (for speed +0 this is 100) and every game turn it decays by 1, so 100 game turns later you can go again. Each turn the game processes the player and all the monsters and the ones that have 0 energy get an action.
fizzix is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 15:11   #17
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,188
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Code:
/*
* This table allows quick conversion from "speed" to "energy"
* The basic function WAS ((S>=110) ? (S-110) : (100 / (120-S)))
* Note that table access is *much* quicker than computation.
*
* Note that the table has been changed at high speeds. From
* "Slow (-40)" to "Fast (+30)" is pretty much unchanged, but
* at speeds above "Fast (+30)", one approaches an asymptotic
* effective limit of 50 energy per turn. This means that it
* is relatively easy to reach "Fast (+30)" and get about 40
* energy per turn, but then speed becomes very "expensive",
* and you must get all the way to "Fast (+50)" to reach the
* point of getting 45 energy per turn. After that point,
* furthur increases in speed are more or less pointless,
* except to balance out heavy inventory.
*
* Note that currently the fastest monster is "Fast (+30)".
*
* It should be possible to lower the energy threshhold from
* 100 units to 50 units, though this may interact badly with
* the (compiled out) small random energy boost code. It may
* also tend to cause more "clumping" at high speeds.
*/
const byte extract_energy[200] =
{
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* Slow */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* S-50 */ 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
/* S-40 */ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2,
/* S-30 */ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3,
/* S-20 */ 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4,
/* S-10 */ 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9,
/* Norm */ 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
/* F+10 */ 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
/* F+20 */ 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
/* F+30 */ 38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
/* F+40 */ 42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
/* F+50 */ 45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
/* F+60 */ 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
/* F+70 */ 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
/* Fast */ 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
};
Clear?
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline  
Old April 16, 2013, 16:15   #18
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,495
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Put another way, every game turn, you gain energy based on your current speed. The line in Nick's post that starts with "Norm" has the gain rates for speeds of +0 through +9; note that at +0 you get 10 energy/game turn. That means it takes 10 game turns for you to get 1 player turn. If you have +1 speed, then you get 11 energy/game turn, so it takes 9.1 game turns for you to get 1 player turn. At +10 speed you get 20 energy/turn, so 5 game turns per player turn -- twice as fast. And so on for +20 speed (+30 energy/turn). But starting at +28 speed, not every speed point gives you an improvement in your energy gain rate (+27 and +28 speed are identical). That's what's meant by diminishing returns. In order to get to 40 energy/turn, you need to get up to +33 speed, and it's impossible to reach 50 energy/turn.
Derakon is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 00:07   #19
MattB
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,095
MattB is on a distinguished road
Firstly, thanks to Fizzix, Nick and Derakon for taking the time to answer my question.

And particularly in answer to Nick - yes crystal clear, thank you!

However, for the benefit of those equally uninitiated as myself, I've done the maths...
Obviously, if I've cocked up then I fully deserve the storm of abuse that's heading my way...

spd times faster
0 normal
10 2x as fast
20 3x as fast
30 3.8x as fast
40 4.2x as fast
50 4.5x as fast
60 4.8x as fast
70 5.0x as fast

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Last edited by MattB; April 17, 2013 at 00:41.
MattB is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 00:50   #20
Patashu
Knight
 
Patashu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 526
Patashu is on a distinguished road
Yep, that's correct.
__________________
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu
Patashu is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speed vs. damage UglySquirrell AAR 5 October 1, 2011 16:38
the need for speed. APWhite Vanilla 9 September 10, 2011 07:15
Rings of Speed Angelus Vanilla 25 July 7, 2011 16:18
Now that I have speed, what to do? Big Al AAR 3 September 22, 2008 20:49
Speed Zero Vanilla 9 January 9, 2008 03:21


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.