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Old April 4, 2014, 01:47   #1
Arphod
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3.5 is Marvelous. One thing though...

I've picked Angband up after a long hiatus. I've been playing 3.5, and I have to say the development team has produced the best version to date. There are far too many changes for me to list in 3.5 that I really like, so I'm gonna save everyone's time by just bringing up the one thing that niggles at me.

Here it is.

There should be some racial goodies added to Humans, Half-Elves, and Elves. I think there's no real reason to play them, and I really wish there were. I'm throwing this idea out with no suggestions yet because I want to see if this is an idea that people would find pertinent. If so, I will join in the discussion and throw $0.02. If this issue were addressed successfully, 3.5 would be IMO more excellent.

In the meantime, great work, dev team.
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Old April 4, 2014, 01:51   #2
Derakon
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It's true that the races you listed aren't very good, but that's all right; not every race needs to be equally powerful. Playing a weak race can be a nice change of pace from playing the powerful ones.
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Old April 4, 2014, 02:34   #3
Malak Darkhunter
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Its true that I dont see much benefit in elves or half-elves yet I do like humans, they do gain expereince very quickly though and can get more powerful faster and earlier. Elves and half-elves are kind of uninteresting to me as a playable race...If i'm going elf it's usualy high-elf.
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Old April 4, 2014, 18:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It's true that the races you listed aren't very good, but that's all right; not every race needs to be equally powerful. Playing a weak race can be a nice change of pace from playing the powerful ones.
I both agree and disagree with both you and OP.

I think humans *are* interesting. They are interesting in what they don't have. Namely, they don't have infravision/see invisible. This makes them have a very different playing early game from every other class besides Dunadan (who are different enough that it's ok).

Now, with elves and half-elves, I agree with OP. They are not distinct from each other. Elves wind up being a challenge class, which in a sense is fine, but half-elves? Let's just decide to pull the plug on that race. I'd also be ok with giving the elves something that makes them unique while keeping them as a challenge class option. Maybe give them huge bonuses to archery? Increase their STR and CON penalties and give them auto-id to weapons/armor? Remove their str/con penalties and give them a huge bonus to using non-metal weapons/armor and a penalty to using metal ones? (these ideas are all pretty out there).
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Old April 4, 2014, 20:47   #5
T-Mick
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Quickband gives Half-Elves a kind of permanent Auto-Scum, (I think they call it a "great fate") which makes them way more interesting, to the point of being my favorite race, even. They die a lot more, of course.
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Old April 5, 2014, 23:27   #6
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
but half-elves? Let's just decide to pull the plug on that race.
Half-elves, if we are talking about Tolkenian half-elves, should be boosted variant of Dunadans. Elrond is half-elf.

I suggest we remove kobolds as non-tolkenian race and boost half-elves to same level as they are.

Elves should lose the CON penalty, then they are useful class again.
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Old April 5, 2014, 23:52   #7
Djabanete
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Half-elves in the Tolkien world function as High Elves. The story and the characters in the story treat Elrond as one of the Noldor. He and Galadriel are of the same race.

It would work fine if Half-Elves were merged with High Elves and if regular Elves became Wood Elves. Obviously it's way more complicated than that in the legendarium, but for players it's weird that the current scheme looks like Elves and High (Better) Elves. And Wood Elves are a legitimate Tolkien race, even though (Wood Elves) + (High Elves) =/= (Elves).

Wood Elves could justifiably have stealth and archery advantages over High Elves, and faster leveling. (Not sure if this is already how it works with Elves, since I haven't kept up with Vanilla for a while.)
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Old April 6, 2014, 00:13   #8
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Originally Posted by Djabanete View Post
Half-elves in the Tolkien world function as High Elves. The story and the characters in the story treat Elrond as one of the Noldor. He and Galadriel are of the same race.
Not all of them. In Tolkien world half-elves are given a choice, live your life as an immortal elf or mortal human. Elronds brother Elros chose human.

Elrond is actually part-maia and all Dunadans are also that (descendent from Luthien whose mother was Melian). They are "greater" than normal humans or elves because they are "more" than just mixture humans or elves.
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Old April 6, 2014, 04:55   #9
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That's all true. I'm just pointing out that functionally Half-Elves are treated as Noldor or, as you say, (ancestors of) Dunedain --- that one would not sacrifice lore for gameplay by deciding that Half-Elves aren't adding much and nixing them as a choice. The removal of the race as a distinct option would be consistent with lore. If you want an "Elrond" character you can play a High Elf --- he might be a Half-elf, but he's also a High Elf.

On the other hand, if they're a good race, keep them. Like I said, I haven't kept up with V for a while.

(Edit: and if you want an "Elros" character you can pick Dunadan. The real weird thing is that if you want, say, a "Beren" character, you have to pick Human, which is weaker than Dunadan, despite that Beren probably had more of the badass genes that make Dunedain better than Humans than the Dunedain themselves*. I guess you just have to assume he was a Human with really good stats.)

(*I guess Beren wasn't part Elf or part Maia, but that just goes to show that race isn't everything, because Dior was all of the above, and as far as I can tell he mostly just had really high Charisma or something.**)

(**Which is why they named a beauty product line after him.)

Last edited by Djabanete; April 6, 2014 at 05:04.
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