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Old July 11, 2007, 09:50   #1
Hugo
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Spoilers updated for Vanilla 3.0.8!

Now that a new official version of Angband has been released, I felt it was time to update some spoiler files as well.

All the following spoiler files are now updated to reflect the game as of version 3.0.8:

On a character's spellcasting abilities:
* magic.spo -- Complete description of spells and prayers, including failure chance, number of spells gained, and lots more.
* books.spo -- Short overview of what spells are in each book.

On objects:
* obj-desc.spo -- Short overview of basic items.
* obj-long.spo -- Complete description of items, item generation, enchantment, item damaging ... basically, everything related to non-magical items.
* obj-good.spo -- Complete description of creation of ego items and artifacts, full listing of all properties any item may have, and more.
* artifact.spo -- All properties of each artifact the game has.

On monsters:
* mon-info.spo -- Complete monster information, for all monsters.
* mon-desc.spo -- Brief monster table, by level.
* mon-name.spo -- Brief monster table, by name.
* mon-view.spo -- Brief monster table, by symbol.
* mon-race.spo -- Brief monster table, non-uniques only, by level.
* mon-uniq.spo -- Brief monster table, uniques only, by level.

All these files, plus many other spoiler files (that are not current for 3.0.8) can be downloaded from http://www.juti.nl/hugo/Angband/Spoiler/. The spoilers can also be read online.

NEW: I have added the ability to download archives with previous versions of some of the above files, for players who are still enjoying previous versions of Angband: 3.0.3, 3.0.5, and 3.0.6.

Please do let me know if you find anything in the spoilers that is incorrect, or confusingly worded. I need your feedback to improve these spoilers!!
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Old July 11, 2007, 12:47   #2
andrewdoull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
Now that a new official version of Angband has been released, I felt it was time to update some spoiler files as well.
Suffice it to say, I'm really impressed with the quality of these spoilers.

You may wish to mention in the 'what qualifies as good' section of obj-good.spo, that potions that raise an attribute will be considered good if the attribute in question is not at its maximum natural level.

Other than that, looks fine.

andrew
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Old July 11, 2007, 12:53   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
Now that a new official version of Angband has been released, I felt it was time to update some spoiler files as well.

All the following spoiler files are now updated to reflect the game as of version 3.0.8:

On a character's spellcasting abilities:
* magic.spo -- Complete description of spells and prayers, including failure chance, number of spells gained, and lots more.
* books.spo -- Short overview of what spells are in each book.

On objects:
* obj-desc.spo -- Short overview of basic items.
* obj-long.spo -- Complete description of items, item generation, enchantment, item damaging ... basically, everything related to non-magical items.
* obj-good.spo -- Complete description of creation of ego items and artifacts, full listing of all properties any item may have, and more.
* artifact.spo -- All properties of each artifact the game has.

On monsters:
* mon-info.spo -- Complete monster information, for all monsters.
* mon-desc.spo -- Brief monster table, by level.
* mon-name.spo -- Brief monster table, by name.
* mon-view.spo -- Brief monster table, by symbol.
* mon-race.spo -- Brief monster table, non-uniques only, by level.
* mon-uniq.spo -- Brief monster table, uniques only, by level.
On a related note, it should be possible to automate many of these (particularly mon-name.spo, mon-view.spo, mon-race.spo and mon-uniq.spo). Do you want me to committ the changes to the Angband codebase?

I'd also like to copy the file name format for Unangband, with your permission.

Andrew
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Old July 11, 2007, 14:04   #4
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Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the compliments. It's good to know that people are actually reading this stuff.

WRT stat-raising potions, I have a short overview in the definition of the term "good" ("or one of the better potions"), and give a detailed description in the section on the generation of guaranteed good objects ("and Potions of Healing, *Healing*, Life, and Augmentation. Objects that are only considered good in some cases are Potions of Restore Mana for spell-casting characters, and Potions of Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution, or Charisma for characters that have their corresponding stat currently below maximum (18/100)."

Did you miss the second part, or do you think this is insufficient?

WRT generating the different versions of the monster list - currently I load them into UltraEdit and invoke it's sort to transform mon-desc into mon-name and mon-view. I transform mon-desc into mon-race and mon-uniq by manuallly removing monsters that shouldn't be in there. I could possibly automate that using grep or some such function, if I didn't feel that downloading and installing a grep for windows and learning the syntax probably takes more time than doing it by hand.

If these files could be generated by the game, it would save me probably from 5 to 10 minutes per release of Angband. If you can implement the code in about that amount of time, then I'd love to see it implemented. If it would take you several hours, then you'd probably better spent that time implementing great new features for Unangband, or hunting down bugs.

File name format: No problem. All these file names were already in use when I first started reviewing the outdated spoilers. The only file name I concocted is mon-act.spo, and that spoiler isn't even finished yet!
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Old July 11, 2007, 14:28   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the compliments. It's good to know that people are actually reading this stuff.

WRT stat-raising potions, I have a short overview in the definition of the term "good" ("or one of the better potions"), and give a detailed description in the section on the generation of guaranteed good objects ("and Potions of Healing, *Healing*, Life, and Augmentation. Objects that are only considered good in some cases are Potions of Restore Mana for spell-casting characters, and Potions of Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution, or Charisma for characters that have their corresponding stat currently below maximum (18/100)."

Did you miss the second part, or do you think this is insufficient?
Missed it. The second part is fine. I'm waiting to hear howls on the newsgroup but either no one has picked it up in the change log or everyone agreed with it.

Basically it has two problems:

1) The 'required' potions to kill Morgoth become much easier to find, by scumming for monsters with good drops. I personally think this is a good thing.

2) Great Wyrms of Ice become painful to fight. The potion of Life shatters. -more-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
WRT generating the different versions of the monster list - currently I load them into UltraEdit and invoke it's sort to transform mon-desc into mon-name and mon-view. I transform mon-desc into mon-race and mon-uniq by manuallly removing monsters that shouldn't be in there. I could possibly automate that using grep or some such function, if I didn't feel that downloading and installing a grep for windows and learning the syntax probably takes more time than doing it by hand.

If these files could be generated by the game, it would save me probably from 5 to 10 minutes per release of Angband. If you can implement the code in about that amount of time, then I'd love to see it implemented. If it would take you several hours, then you'd probably better spent that time implementing great new features for Unangband, or hunting down bugs.

File name format: No problem. All these file names were already in use when I first started reviewing the outdated spoilers. The only file name I concocted is mon-act.spo, and that spoiler isn't even finished yet!
I think its going to be a quick fix. The books spoiler might be doable as well, although the code will be a little longer.

Andrew
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Old July 11, 2007, 20:44   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
It's good to know that people are actually reading this stuff.
Be assured that they are invaluable. Even if play Angband since 2.7.x, I'm still a newbie in several aspects (e.g. I never won, shame on me) and have to dig in them from time to time
Thanks for keeping them up to date.

PS : Are the spoilers in the focus of the GPL initiative or is it useless/impossible to do?

Last edited by Nolendil; July 11, 2007 at 20:50.
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Old July 11, 2007, 23:25   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolendil View Post
Are the spoilers in the focus of the GPL initiative or is it useless/impossible to do?
Hi Nolendil,

The spoiler files artifact.spo, obj-desc.spo, mon-desc.spo, and mon-info.spo are generated by Angband. I only added an opening paragraph that describes the contents. As far as I understand copyright, they come under whatever license Angband carries.

The files mon-name.spo, mon-race.spo, mon-uniq.spo, and mon-view.spo are created by resorting and/or filtering mon-desc.spo. I guess that I am legally entitled to claim some sorts of rights on this, but I won't.

The file books.spo is still very similar to the original version I found when I started maintaining spoiler files. I corrected some changes, but changed nothing to the format and added nothing. I don't know if a license has even been specified when it was first distributed, but I don't feel I have any rights to claim any other license.

The files magic.spo and obj-good.spo, and the spoiler menu navigation files *.hlp are the files I changed most. I retained so little from the originals that I dare claim them as my own. I am prepared to release them under any license that offers reasonable protection of my intellectual property and my wish to make this information available at no cost to Angband players. I don't know the details of the GPL, but I expect that this license will meet my requirements.

That leaves one problem file - obj-long.spo. I have added much to the contents, rewritten large portions, but I have also retained large parts of the original and maintained most of the original formatting. This file probably should be released partly under it's original license (whatever it was), partly under a license of my choice. <sigh>

For all the files that you find on my site but that are not mentioned here, I have done nothing but to find them, include them in the menu, and upload them to my site. Only the license terms of the original authors apply.

Does this answer your question?
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Old July 13, 2007, 12:38   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolendil View Post
Be assured that they are invaluable. Even if play Angband since 2.7.x, I'm still a newbie in several aspects (e.g. I never won, shame on me) and have to dig in them from time to time
Thanks for keeping them up to date.

PS : Are the spoilers in the focus of the GPL initiative or is it useless/impossible to do?

I also use the spoilers from time to time, like when I've been away from the game for 3 years
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Old July 16, 2007, 01:07   #9
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Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
Does this answer your question?
Yes, even more than I expected

My concern was about being able to distribute the spoilers with Angband.

There is a link to your site on rephial.org but it's not the only place where you can download Angband so people might not know where to get them or even that they exist. (HINT : Pav, could you add a link to the spoilers in the download section? )
Maybe there could be a dummy "spoiler.hlp" file provided with Angband and containing a link to your site with instructions about how to install them.

Distributing them with Angband would be better but I suppose it would need to have the same license to do so.
However, some files would be ok but some have no clear license and/or unknown authors which makes the situation difficult to resolve.

My question was also if someone would consider doing the same effort as the Open Source Initiative currently in progress for Angband.
Or maybe we could consider rewriting (and updating) the problematic files so that we can claim authorship on them and release them under whatever license pleases us (I might volunteer to participate although I'm not sure of the quality I could provide).
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Old July 16, 2007, 08:32   #10
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Hi Nolendil,

re: Distributing spoilers with Angband - I think you'll find some disagreement here. Some players think that spoilers are bad and should not exist. I disagree, obviously - since Angband is an open source project, writing spoilers just gives people who don't read C the same opportunities as those who do. :-) But I do agree that consulting spoilers shouldn't be too easy, as it might spoil the fun of discovery for a new player. Having them as a seperate download on a seperate site will at least make sure that new players won't accidentally read them. I like the idea of a link to the spoiler location in a default spoiler.hlp file, but it's of course up to Andrew to decide.

re: link to spoilers in download section - There is already a link to the spoilers site in the Links section. I'm not sure if the downloads section would be an appropriate place for such a link (but if Pav agrees with you, I won't object - I'm glad wiith every link that any site puts up!)

re: Open Source Initiative - I won't take any action here. I just completely lack the time for thiws. It would be a major undertaking - some spoiler files don't even list their authors, you know :-)

re: Rewriting and updating outdated files - Getting a complete set of spoilers that is fully up to date is still on my to-do list. Unfortunately, that list is rather long and I often have periods of weeks or more that I don't even have time to play Angband, let alone work on spoiler files.
I am currently working on mon-act.spo - a new spoiler file, describing all actions a monster can take in its turn, including all attacks monsters have (so mon-act.spo will replace the outdated mon-blow.spo), plus a description of a character's saving throw. Next on my list is a spoiler file for all abilities of a character, that should replace ability.spo (and possibly stats.spo as well). The saving throw discussion will of course be moved from mon-act.spo to this new file once it's finished.
With those two additional spoiler files finished, most of the action in the game is described. Dungeon generation (currently in dungeon.spo) is last on my list. I will not attempt to rewrite the strategy guides, since I'm frankly a rather lousy player :-)

If you, or anyone else, wants to write, rewrite, or update any spoiler files, please do. I'll gladly host them and scratch them from my own to-do list. Just contact me first if you consider doing anything that might overlap with mon-act.spo, since it would be wasteful if you spend time describing something I already have covered.
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Last edited by Hugo; July 16, 2007 at 08:46.
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