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Old May 26, 2020, 18:38   #1
sffp
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Choose your bow

So I'm playing my first serious ranger (dunadan) Previous ranger @'s had died quickly after the death of really powerful characters due to carelessness. So they hadn't found bows like this:

q) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+8,+15)
Found lying on the floor at 1100 feet (level 22)

A normal arrow does:
Average damage/round: 100.7.

So tooling around at 1650, looking gain stat potions, I decide to put a whole bunch of arrows into Old Man Willow and look what he drops:

b) a Long Bow of Lothlórien (x5) (+11,+8) <+3, +2>
Dropped by Old Man Willow at 1750 feet (level 35)

+3 dexterity.
+2 shooting power.
Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
Grants the ability to see invisible things. Prevents paralysis.

Wow - let's put that puppy on and see what we can do,
Now a normal arrow does:
Average damage/round: 100.7

Wow that's funny. Clearly it's a superior bow, but the exact same damage?

Let's see
(2.5+8)*5=52.5
(2.5+15)*3=52.5

The maths check out

Obviously magic'd arrows will do better with Lothlorien and FA/SeeInv will allow me to sub out my weapon when I find a better one and of course, every to-Damage/*Enchant Weapon* will be applied on it henceforth.

I wonder why it say 100.7 instead of 52.5 - oh well - up for more ammo

And at the Weapon Smith, we find

r) a Light Crossbow of Power (x3) (+9,+18)
Bought from a store

Wow - I have some fancy bolts I've been keeping in my house and that +18 must do better damage. Let's buy it and a bolt and find out!

standard bolt:
Average Damage/round: 63.6

Whoa whoa whoa

What's going on?

The answer as many of you know is Shooting Speed. With the long bows, my shooting speed is 1.9 (I assume that's an approximation) While with my "light" crossbow, my shooting speed is 1.

The inspection is showing me not the damage of that single arrow - it's factoring in that I can shoot almost 2 arrows/round with the longbow. Each crossbow bolt does more damage, but I shoot far more arrows (if I have them).

Which lead me to a few questions

1) I assume the shooting speed is weight related. What's the formula for computing it - is it also str/dex related?

2) Are there any buffs for archery from rings/spells and stuff? Amusingly, I'm wearing a ring of the mouse that increases my Dex enough to overcome the damage negative. The added Dex improves my Shoot To-hit by one. Rings of Damage/Accuracy/Slaying don't affect. Is there something else I should be looking for?

3) Wisdom affects my magic. Who knew?

I'm finding that it's the number of arrows that limit my time in the dungeon now. I'm seriously considering downgrading my armor - not for the 2 points of to-hit, but for the weight difference so I can carry more arrows!


Any input is always appreciated.
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Old May 26, 2020, 19:01   #2
Sphara
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It´s class related. Ranger gains extra shooting speed ONLY WITH BOWS, when leveling up. It has nothing to do with STR or DEX afaik.

Grats for an early Lothlorien bow! 100 dmg with +0+0 arrows and mouse ring on is pretty beefy on DL35
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Old May 26, 2020, 21:07   #3
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That really is a shame. It would add some nice thematic flavor if different races got the ranger bonus on different launchers.

Hobbit, Kobold: Sling
Dwarf, Half-Orc, Half-Troll: Crossbow
Man-types & namby-pamby Elf-types: Bows
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Old May 26, 2020, 21:37   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hounded View Post
It would add some nice thematic flavor if different races got the ranger bonus on different launchers.

Hobbit, Kobold: Sling
Dwarf, Half-Orc, Half-Troll: Crossbow
Man-types & namby-pamby Elf-types: Bows
I second that suggestion!
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Old May 26, 2020, 22:18   #5
sffp
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Hounded -
That's a great idea. I love some of the newer flavor (Draught of the Ents is my fav so far - send me more of those...) I do think you should quaff Sips of Miruvor though...



Sphara -

Thanks! It's my first ever Lothlorien bow. (I don't think they existed back int he early 90's).

This game has been crazy. You're never going to believe the fix for the weight issue. I just found my first staff of light and my first potion of intellect. I haven't found a str, dex or intel potion yet. No artifact armor, cloak, shield, hat, gloves or footware. The only artifacts I found were Galadriel and Eriril (which is sitting in my house because my Mace of Gondolin gave me my first free action/see invis and just kicked in general)

But here it is. Look what Ufthak and Lokkak left me.

No. No complaints from me.

One new question.
Does resist disenchantment prevent all your items from being disenchanted?
Because I will cry if some of these get disenchanted.
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Old May 27, 2020, 05:36   #6
Sky
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you can easily enchant the 5x bow up to +12 with the basic Enchant To Damage scrolls you find (it can go up to +15, but it becomes harder), so, easy choice.

Also, keep in mind something VERY important; the X multiplier, also determined how far you can shoot. With a x5 or x6 you can pretty much shoot anything in line of sight.
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Old May 27, 2020, 07:52   #7
fph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hounded View Post
That really is a shame. It would add some nice thematic flavor if different races got the ranger bonus on different launchers.

Hobbit, Kobold: Sling
Dwarf, Half-Orc, Half-Troll: Crossbow
Man-types & namby-pamby Elf-types: Bows
That seems a nice idea, but I am afraid it would require some rebalancing of launchers, including artifacts: currently it seems easier to find an endgame-quality bow than a crossbow or a sling (apart from a lucky Buckland find).

At the opposite end of the spectrum, what if they got bonuses for all three launchers?
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Old May 27, 2020, 14:53   #8
Sky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fph View Post
what if they got bonuses for all three launchers?
think this through;

heavy crossbows endgame options:

heavy crossbow of might x6 damage

add 2 shots to this and you are shooting at (bad math) x18
even a lothlorien will reach tops of x15 and that is overpowered, as you would know - it forced a ranger nerf.

slings of buckland are even more OP, as they can start from +2 power +2 shots, add 2 shots and you would be shooting at x20.
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Old May 27, 2020, 15:01   #9
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OK, so it is fairer to say that *any* change from the current situation requires some rebalancing. In any case, a system in which there is a choice among three kinds of endgame-quality shooters would seem more interesting.
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Old May 27, 2020, 22:27   #10
whartung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sffp View Post
And at the Weapon Smith, we find

r) a Light Crossbow of Power (x3) (+9,+18)
Bought from a store

Wow - I have some fancy bolts I've been keeping in my house and that +18 must do better damage. Let's buy it and a bolt and find out!
It would be nice to be able to see how much damage a bow in the store will do, since you can do it with weapons already.
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