Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 3, 2010, 18:39   #1
d_m
Angband Devteam member
 
d_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Age: 39
Posts: 1,516
d_m is on a distinguished road
Additive Multipliers

So r1982 implements Pete Mack's suggestion of adding (rather than multiplying) brands/slays on ranged attacks. So now your x3 longbow with acid branded arrows will get x6 to total damage, instead of the x9 it got previously.
__________________
linux->xterm->screen->pmacs
d_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3, 2010, 20:33   #2
ekolis
Knight
 
ekolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Age: 36
Posts: 911
ekolis is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to ekolis Send a message via MSN to ekolis Send a message via Yahoo to ekolis
Not to nitpick or anything, and I surely should have brought this up sooner, but shouldn't that be x5? I mean, sure 3+3=6, but x3 is really +200%, so if you want to make it truly additive, you'd have +200% and another +200%, or +400%, or x5

Basically, let's be consistent in what the bonuses apply to... it doesn't make much sense to me for the first bonus to apply to the base damage, and the second bonus to apply to... well, something slightly MORE than the base damage? ... just because there are two bonuses stacking!
__________________
You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
You are surrounded by a stasis field!
The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!
ekolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2010, 01:34   #3
d_m
Angband Devteam member
 
d_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Age: 39
Posts: 1,516
d_m is on a distinguished road
You're totally right that it seems inconsistent. I'm going to see how this plays before possibly changing it though, since this is already reducing the effective damage of branded ammo on a x3 longbow by 1/3.

To be honest, the whole combat system is so crazily inconsistent that I'm less worried about this than I should be. The fact that brands and slays don't stack but the archery multiplier does stack, the fact that non-weapon brands affect melee but not ranged, the fact that +dmg bonuses work differently in melee versus ranged, =dmg only working for melee, the way multiple blows vs. multiple shots are handled, the list goes on and on...

Anyway thanks for the heads up.
__________________
linux->xterm->screen->pmacs
d_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2010, 12:28   #4
ekolis
Knight
 
ekolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Age: 36
Posts: 911
ekolis is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to ekolis Send a message via MSN to ekolis Send a message via Yahoo to ekolis
Heh, yeah

Maybe though it's time to up the bonuses on bows, while reducing the damage of arrows? I mean, seriously, 1d4 damage from a THROWN arrow? How fast can you actually throw one of those things? :P Slings/rocks are OK, because you can actually throw a rock at decent velocity... but throwing an arrow or a bolt seems nonsensical...

Of course, with the way the damage system works now, there's only four possible outcomes (besides missing) when you fire an arrow... 1/4 damage, 1/2 damage, 3/4 damage, and full damage (seeing as the multiplier doesn't affect the number of dice but instead the end damage result)... reducing arrows to 1d3 or 1d2 would only make that situation worse!
__________________
You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
You are surrounded by a stasis field!
The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!
ekolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4, 2010, 19:52   #5
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,752
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
Not to nitpick or anything, and I surely should have brought this up sooner, but shouldn't that be x5? I mean, sure 3+3=6, but x3 is really +200%, so if you want to make it truly additive, you'd have +200% and another +200%, or +400%, or x5
I thought about that, too, when I proposed it, and decide that consistency was a bad idea here.

+1 x damage from slay evil means it's not worth keeping around anymore (arrows of wounding would always be better.) So I figure an extra +1 for brands and slays on ammo is fair.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15, 2010, 00:49   #6
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
I've been playing a warrior with this additive multiplier change. Missiles are still overpowered. OTOH, I don't know how fun it would be to play a warrior without them. Post stat gain, warriors need overpowered missiles far more than any other class. For anyone else, losing a staff of speed or a wand of teleport other is a nuisance, but to a warrior even the chance of explosion on recharge is too much. Any class *other* than a warrior is better suited to melee a burner or an electrifier or a charge drainer.

So here are a bunch of radical ideas.

(0) It is too difficult to worry about making warriors balanced without making rangers into a munchkin class, so just accept that rangers are munchkin and forget about them entirely when worrying about play balance. Plus 2 shots is fine.

(1) Give warriors an extra shot with all missile weapons, or an extra half-shot if launchers of extra shots are eliminated. Or use only 2/3 energy per shot if you want it to scale linearly with extra shots. This may be too generous, but I say give warriors some love for a change. Let them be the masters of all non-magical attacks.

(2) Reduce all launcher multipliers by 1. I.e. sling = x1, longbow = x2, etc.

(3) Launcher ammo should do no damage when thrown, perhaps should not even be selectable to throw.

(4) Damage sides on ammo should be doubled.

(5) Further nerf archery as necessary, perhaps dropping all brand multipliers to +x2. That's beyond the scope of my playtesting so far, but it's a guess.

So a starting sling would be 1d8, and a +9 longbow would be 2 * (9 + 1d8) = 27 avg damage.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15, 2010, 01:04   #7
nppangband
NPPAngband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Stat Gain, Angband
Posts: 926
nppangband is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m View Post
To be honest, the whole combat system is so crazily inconsistent that I'm less worried about this than I should be. The fact that brands and slays don't stack but the archery multiplier does stack, the fact that non-weapon brands affect melee but not ranged, the fact that +dmg bonuses work differently in melee versus ranged, =dmg only working for melee, the way multiple blows vs. multiple shots are handled, the list goes on and on...
I have often thought that the biggest improveemnt to the game could be in combat. Troll warriors still go out and buy a whip to start to get those extra attacks. Hobbit warriors that have finished statgain seek out heavy weapons. I wish trolls fought like trolls (very heavy weapons, not as many attacks per round, but crushing ctirical hits that do a great amount of damage), and halflings fight like halflings (do best with light weapons, short swords and daggers, not as much damage but they are quick and get many attacks, looking kind of like Yoda when he fought Count Dooku).
nppangband is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15, 2010, 01:28   #8
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,009
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by nppangband View Post
I have often thought that the biggest improveemnt to the game could be in combat. Troll warriors still go out and buy a whip to start to get those extra attacks. Hobbit warriors that have finished statgain seek out heavy weapons. I wish trolls fought like trolls (very heavy weapons, not as many attacks per round, but crushing ctirical hits that do a great amount of damage), and halflings fight like halflings (do best with light weapons, short swords and daggers, not as much damage but they are quick and get many attacks, looking kind of like Yoda when he fought Count Dooku).
try Ironband...

A.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15, 2010, 03:50   #9
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
(3) Launcher ammo should do no damage when thrown, perhaps should not even be selectable to throw.
This should be implemented regardless of any other changes.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15, 2010, 06:38   #10
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
I can see throwing arrows and bolts not working well, but shots and stones? Seems like you ought to be able to throw those reasonably effectively.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.