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Old May 19, 2015, 21:19   #41
Zireael
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No, my point is that if level feelings encourage sticking around on levels, is sticking around on levels actually desirable independent of the level feelings? Because otherwise the level feelings aren't actually "accomplishing anything" in terms of encouraging desirable behaviors.
Sticking around on any non-boring level is desirable imho. I usually stick around on any lvl that's not boring until the 30s, where I start WoR-ing or taking stairs back and forth to get good+ feelings.

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1. Encourage me to stay on levels until the treasure feeling kicks in, instead of always taking the first down staircase that I come to. So they create an effective sort of 'exploration timer' that creates a balance between diving too fast and fully clearing levels.

2. Encourage me to stay on levels that initially look boring or too scary, because there's a promise of a reward for level-clearing. (In the early game I'll stick around clear any level that promises "something worthwhile", but as I go deeper the threshold for what I consider worth clearing increases.)
Nomad's summed up the benefits of level feelings pretty well here.

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So I'd be up for any sort of more thematic replacement that encourages similar behaviour.
That's what I agree most about. Let's keep level feelings and make them less psychic and more organic!
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Old May 19, 2015, 21:48   #42
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Nomad said (in his earlier post, not the most recent one) something along the lines of "I like level feelings because they encourage me to do X." And I wanted to know why "encourages you to do X" was a desirable trait to have. I mean, if level feelings encouraged you to take shots of Liquid Plumbr then they wouldn't be very desirable, now would they?


Because it is possibly fun and potentially useful to search for a specific unknown item that might give a temporary advantage at shallower dungeon levels than to dive deeper in hopes that useful items will become more common down there. I get that diving as far as possible might be the best strategy, but is it really so much better than occasional exploration that we need to write pages of exposition to justify? I think the trap for noobs is knowing which messages to igonre, and I'd definitely be open to changing what messages are displayed or how they work.
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Old May 19, 2015, 22:25   #43
Ingwe Ingweron
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Nomad said (in his earlier post, not the most recent one) something along the lines of "I like level feelings because they encourage me to do X." And I wanted to know why "encourages you to do X" was a desirable trait to have. I mean, if level feelings encouraged you to take shots of Liquid Plumbr then they wouldn't be very desirable, now would they?
I'd rate the !Liquid Plumber level feeling as a "1", so, no, that would be unlikely to encourage me to stick around.
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Old May 20, 2015, 00:46   #44
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Nomad said (in his earlier post, not the most recent one) ...
I'm pretty sure Nomad has said she is a woman. Easy mistake to make on this forum, (and apologies to Nomad if I am misremembering) but it's annoying to be misgendered.
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Old May 20, 2015, 04:01   #45
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Originally Posted by d_m View Post
I'm pretty sure Nomad has said she is a woman. Easy mistake to make on this forum, (and apologies to Nomad if I am misremembering) but it's annoying to be misgendered.
Righto, sorry. I usually remember to use non-gendered pronouns, but that time I forgot.
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Old May 20, 2015, 07:43   #46
Ingwe Ingweron
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Originally Posted by d_m View Post
I'm pretty sure Nomad has said she is a woman. Easy mistake to make on this forum, (and apologies to Nomad if I am misremembering) but it's annoying to be misgendered.
Like when I had to explain that Ingwe Ingweron was the King of the Vanyar in Valinor and High King of all the elves. I wasn't a "Mrs." LOL.
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Old May 20, 2015, 09:38   #47
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Thanks for the well-reasoned response, Nomad. That's a much more clearly-explained opinion than any of the others I've seen here (probably including my own!).
I second that. I like level feelings for pretty much exactly same reasons Nomad said. They are not necessary, but they create some feeling of expectation if there is something worthwhile, or tell you that there is no reason to stay here.

Without level feelings I would probably play way way slower because I would have urge to check everything "just in case there is Ringil here". They make me play faster, not slower.
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Old May 20, 2015, 14:16   #48
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Originally Posted by d_m View Post
I'm pretty sure Nomad has said she is a woman. Easy mistake to make on this forum, (and apologies to Nomad if I am misremembering) but it's annoying to be misgendered.
Yes, you're right - well remembered! (I've managed to completely fail to retain any personal information I've learned about anybody on any forum I visit, so don't worry about it.)

Re: current level feelings, maybe it would help just as a stop-gap cosmetic measure to replace them with flavour messages that sound a little less psychic. Now we have the numerical 1-9 indicator on the screen it's less necessary for the messages themselves to be intuitively worthwhile/good/splendid understandable, so you could replace them with stuff you could plausibly have 'noticed' about the state of the rooms and behaviour of the monsters. So, e.g., "monsters here seem hushed and fearful", "these passages seem dusty and rarely used", "you hear patrols marching in the distance", "the hallways ring with roars and shouts", etc. (In fact, come to think of it, I would now like to register my vote for replacing "Omens of death haunt this place" with "Drums... drums in the deep!" )
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Old May 20, 2015, 15:18   #49
Zireael
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so you could replace them with stuff you could plausibly have 'noticed' about the state of the rooms and behaviour of the monsters. So, e.g., "monsters here seem hushed and fearful", "these passages seem dusty and rarely used", "you hear patrols marching in the distance", "the hallways ring with roars and shouts", etc. (In fact, come to think of it, I would now like to register my vote for replacing "Omens of death haunt this place" with "Drums... drums in the deep!" )
"Drums... drums in the deep!" would then become my favorite Angband quote!
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Old May 20, 2015, 15:40   #50
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
Re: current level feelings, maybe it would help just as a stop-gap cosmetic measure to replace them with flavour messages that sound a little less psychic. Now we have the numerical 1-9 indicator on the screen it's less necessary for the messages themselves to be intuitively worthwhile/good/splendid understandable, so you could replace them with stuff you could plausibly have 'noticed' about the state of the rooms and behaviour of the monsters. So, e.g., "monsters here seem hushed and fearful", "these passages seem dusty and rarely used", "you hear patrols marching in the distance", "the hallways ring with roars and shouts", etc. (In fact, come to think of it, I would now like to register my vote for replacing "Omens of death haunt this place" with "Drums... drums in the deep!" )
Even if nothing else gets done to level feelings, this would be a good change.
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