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Old August 19, 2014, 03:18   #1
Ehrblast
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Question beginners question about weapon stats [armor, too, perhaps]

I took a look at www.thangorodrim.ne and I got good information from there regarding a couple questions I had in the vein I'm asking here.
Specifically, I want further understanding, that i might make better decisions regarding weapons to keep and weapons to drop. To a lesser extend armor as well. Total noob question; really appreciate your responses.

Yesterday I defeated Bullroarer and got an axe, then later today I found a sword. [Between them I got Wormtonuge's Crossbow of Power (x3) (+11, +15) , yay]

Code:
Bullroarer's Battle Axe of Acid (2d8) (+7, +6)
acid branded
resistance to acid
1.1 blows/rnd
+3 STR +0DEX gets 1.3
Avg dmg/rnd: 48.4 vs acid resistant, 25.8 others

Executioners Sword of Slay Giant (4d5) (+1, +6) <+2>
+2 STR; sustains strength
1.1 blows/rnd
+5 STR +0 DEX gets 1.3 blows
Avg dmg/rnd: 60.7 vs giants, 30.1 others
As far as general weapon strength, what is the most important info to judge by? Average damage per round? Dice roll? And blows per round are class dependent, right?

Also, could you clarify this for me? "+5 STR and +0 DEX gets 1.3 blows."
How does this +5 manifest itself? Does it mean, "if I have '+5' added to my strength?"

Pertaining to the sword, its got 4d5. 20 possible points from the die. Yet its average is 30.1. Could you explain how its calculated, along with the bonuses?

And, what does the <+2> apply to for the axe? Can't seem to find that out, though I'm sure its right there.

Been ages since I've played AD&D, and its revealing my memories have gotten foggy on this stuff (tho' ATM I am rereading Spelljammer and Dark Sun !)

Its these little details I am unsure of, and it irks me that I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Other question of this nature, these small details, I'd like to read more about.

Thanks, fellows...
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Old August 19, 2014, 04:18   #2
Zyphyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehrblast View Post
I took a look at www.thangorodrim.ne and I got good information from there regarding a couple questions I had in the vein I'm asking here.
Specifically, I want further understanding, that i might make better decisions regarding weapons to keep and weapons to drop. To a lesser extend armor as well. Total noob question; really appreciate your responses.

Yesterday I defeated Bullroarer and got an axe, then later today I found a sword. [Between them I got Wormtonuge's Crossbow of Power (x3) (+11, +15) , yay]

Code:
Bullroarer's Battle Axe of Acid (2d8) (+7, +6)
acid branded
resistance to acid
1.1 blows/rnd
+3 STR +0DEX gets 1.3
Avg dmg/rnd: 48.4 vs acid resistant, 25.8 others

Executioners Sword of Slay Giant (4d5) (+1, +6) <+2>
+2 STR; sustains strength
1.1 blows/rnd
+5 STR +0 DEX gets 1.3 blows
Avg dmg/rnd: 60.7 vs giants, 30.1 others
As far as general weapon strength, what is the most important info to judge by? Average damage per round? Dice roll? And blows per round are class dependent, right?
Average damage per round is what matters. Blows per round are STR and DEX dependant with caps set by class.

Quote:
Also, could you clarify this for me? "+5 STR and +0 DEX gets 1.3 blows."
How does this +5 manifest itself? Does it mean, "if I have '+5' added to my strength?"
Your guess is correct. If you manage to increase your strength by five through some combination of stat potions and items that increase strength, you will swing the weapon more often and thereby do more damage (in addition to the increased damage that the STR itself will bring).

Quote:
Pertaining to the sword, its got 4d5. 20 possible points from the die. Yet its average is 30.1. Could you explain how its calculated, along with the bonuses?
For a full explanation, read the code. The simple version is, it takes the average roll (12 in this case), applies in +Damage modifiers (from STR, the inherent +6 on the weapon, and possibly +Damage from other items you are wearing), modifies all of that by your chance to get a crit (and the potential size of the crit), and then multiples by the blows/round.


Quote:
And, what does the <+2> apply to for the axe? Can't seem to find that out, though I'm sure its right there.
That is the size of the STR bonus.
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Old August 19, 2014, 06:15   #3
d_m
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Here is how to read item labels in Angband:

Rake of Gardening (3d4) (+9, +10) [+11] <+4>
  • (melee weapon)
  • base weapon damage 3d4
  • +9 to hit
  • +10 to damage
  • +11 to armor class
  • +4 to one or more other stats (e.g. speed, strength, searching, etc.)

Slingshot of Annoyance (x3) (+6, +16) <+1>
  • (ranged weapon)
  • x3 ranged weapon damage multiplier
  • +6 to hit
  • +16 to damage
  • +1 to one or more other stats (e.g. speed, strength, searching, etc.)

Helmet of the Fireman (+2, +3) [10, +7] <+2>
  • (armor weapon)
  • +2 to hit
  • +3 to damage
  • base armor class 10
  • +7 to armor class
  • +2 to one or more other stats (e.g. speed, strength, searching, etc.)

Ring of Decoding (+1, +2) [+13] <+3>
  • (jewelry, in this case a ring)
  • +1 to hit
  • +2 to damage
  • +13 to armor class
  • +3 to one or more other stats (e.g. speed, strength, searching, etc.)

The label will not tell you which resistances (if any) the item gives you, or which stats are increased. But hopefully this will help you learn to read the item labels at a glance.

One thing is that these formats have changed (slightly) over the years, so labels in older dumps may look a little bit different.

(I created these custom items to try to show all possible fields for the major types. If I've made a mistake please correct me. Edited to fix a typo and include a ranged weapon.)
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Last edited by d_m; August 19, 2014 at 06:21.
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Old August 19, 2014, 07:59   #4
Ehrblast
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Zyphyr, d_m,

Thank you for that, makes complete sense to me now; and I'll take a look at the code.
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Old August 19, 2014, 10:23   #5
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Note also that the way the numbers work, light weapons are heavily favored early on. It is quite possible that a measly dagger 1d4 (+2,+3) will give you more damage output than the acid axe you posted simply because you can get say 3 blows per round. The maximum number of blows you can get is 4-6 and depends on class, but as long as you are below that cap your number of blows depends only on your strength and dex. That is with the same strength and dex, same weapon a HT warrior and a gnome mage will do the same damage.
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Old August 19, 2014, 11:27   #6
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quarague View Post
That is with the same strength and dex, same weapon a HT warrior and a gnome mage will do the same damage.
Close, but not quite. Melee skill affects that too, and warriors are better at hitting things than mages and races affect that too. Other than that damage is same.
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Old August 19, 2014, 12:13   #7
Carnivean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Close, but not quite. Melee skill affects that too, and warriors are better at hitting things than mages and races affect that too. Other than that damage is same.
If I recall correctly, accuracy isn't part of the damage per round calculation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m
Helmet of the Fireman
This should totally be in the game.
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Old August 19, 2014, 14:07   #8
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivean View Post
If I recall correctly, accuracy isn't part of the damage per round calculation?
Game counts that in it too. Criticals as well. Calc itself is a bit too complicated to add here, it includes weapon weights and such as well. Also what game shows you and reality isn't actually same, because monster AC affects the calc, and that can't be included in the average damage shown.

For example The Cat Lord is pretty tough one to kill in melee because it just is very hard to actually hit. Against it you probably get more damage using high-value skill ring instead of dam ring.

Average damage / blow assuming all blows hit doesn't change with skill but what actually happens does.

You can test it by looking at the numbers before and after drinking potion of heroism. It changes. Not much, but it does.
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Old August 19, 2014, 14:26   #9
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I think I can ask this question here.
What is the difference between "Game turns" and "Standart turns"? I believe, "Standart turns" displays how many times I pressed any control buttons. What displays "Game turns"?
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Old August 19, 2014, 15:10   #10
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I think I can ask this question here.
What is the difference between "Game turns" and "Standart turns"? I believe, "Standart turns" displays how many times I pressed any control buttons. What displays "Game turns"?
Game turns is base time unit of the game: you (and monsters) get some energy / game turn and after your energy goes over 100 you can act. A zero speed player gets 10 energy / game turn, so 10 game turns goes before you act.

Standard turn is a turn you act + turns you use resting.

Resting turns are self-explanatory, however if you rest for 10 turns, game counts 9. I think it doesn't count turn giving order to rest as resting turn.
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