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Old December 13, 2018, 16:44   #21
Quirk
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Originally Posted by HugoTheGreat2011 View Post
Also, another minor bug:
When you start the game, the game occasionally starts the player on top of rubble.
Hmm, will check it out and fix it.
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Old December 13, 2018, 21:58   #22
MITZE
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Question Song of Challenge & the Wrath Curse

How do Challenge and the Wrath curse compare to each other in terms of provoking the enemy? I'd take it that Challenge is more effective with high Song, but how does Wrath work?

EDIT: And how does it work if both are in effect at the same time?
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Last edited by MITZE; December 13, 2018 at 21:59. Reason: Added another question.
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Old December 13, 2018, 23:44   #23
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Quirk:
Yes, I indeed escaped the Throne Room to 950ft carrying Morgoth's Crown with me. I even did a screen recording of all events before and after the Throne Room. Although, it was my first time doing that in Sil-Q, I've done that more than one in older Vanilla Sil versions.
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Old December 14, 2018, 01:48   #24
Quirk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTheGreat2011 View Post
Quirk:
Yes, I indeed escaped the Throne Room to 950ft carrying Morgoth's Crown with me. I even did a screen recording of all events before and after the Throne Room. Although, it was my first time doing that in Sil-Q, I've done that more than one in older Vanilla Sil versions.
That screen recording might come in handy. And yeah I know taking the crown out is possible, it's just a hefty lift required. You took two Sils out then picked up the crown and escaped. I'll try and recreate that as faithfully as possible. Did you then clear 950?
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Old December 14, 2018, 02:16   #25
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I did not clear the post throne room 950ft on the 1st occasion. I had a near death with Morgoth's non-unique pals and escaped that. I think I scoured maybe 70% of the 1st 950ft visit. I left because I was losing patience with Morgoth not showing up. And I wanted him to show up...and he didn't so far at the 2nd 950ft encounter. I'll find out when I get back. Apparently, I learned Vanish from the Stealth tree during my 1st post-throne room 950ft visit. And my Stealth is now like 15....Maybe that's why he 'can't find me'?

About taking out Sils:
I could have taken out all three. I used Angrist to take out the first Sils no problem. It shattered upon the third attempt. The throne room became too chaotic, leaving me no time to pick out an alternate weapon for the third Sil. So, I took the Crown with me out of the throne room. But then again, I completely forgot to take it with me before taking those stairs from the initial 950ft level to another 950ft level.

In retrospect:
I might have had some chance of killing Morgoth if I chosen Vanish and Rapid Attack and somehow gotten Anguirrel or Saitnar before the Throne Room. Vanish so that I am not as noticed by monsters and/or even Morgoth before I knock off his crown. Rapid Attack because of double stack melee. Anguirrel and Saitnar because they're sharp.

I will post a chardump of this aforementioned Sil-Q character of mine. It's a Fingolfin build that now actually very closely resembles my previous Vanilla-Sil winners. Specifically, I have chosen the abilities that I had usually chosen with those past winners or even Morgoth killers (i.e. given me the most success at winning). Interestingly, this one chosen only the ones (as far as I can tell) that are not exclusive to Sil-Q. If I were to play Sil-Q or Vanilla-Sil to win with another character, I'd probably do the same...I think I have a winning formula.

Here's my screen recording of the said Fingolfin build (Hugoesque 51) on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMSsRyQDOA&t=1690s

There is music in this video. Computer volume panel hardware is messed up. So you might not hear anything at all unless you set your volume to full blast.
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Last edited by HugoTheGreat2011; December 14, 2018 at 14:25. Reason: About video's music sound volume
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Old December 14, 2018, 14:17   #26
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So it looks like Morgoth made it to the first 950 at least but wandered round not finding you - probably because of Vanish. I'm basing this on the "It whispers..." text at about 6:00 and a little before - this is the bug I was referring to where Morgoth's song of piercing is transmuted to the Dim attack. We would only be seeing this if Morgoth were somewhere on the level. Not having a functioning song of piercing will also stop Morgoth from chasing you down as effectively.

I'll still be looking to pretty up the 950 stairs down interaction and the reported rubble spawn issue.

MITZE: not ignoring you, but I have to check the code and I've barely been in the house except to sleep this week. Will get back to you soonish I hope if I can grab some time before flying on Sunday.
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Old December 14, 2018, 18:40   #27
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Quirk:
How do you know if Morgoth's Song of Piercing isn't working?
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Old December 14, 2018, 19:16   #28
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The song itself is working fine, Morgoth's just singing the wrong song, because of a bug in the code. This is recognizable by the "It whispers" message Quirk mentioned.

Put another way, Morgoth's Song of Piercing isn't working because he can't sing it, he sings something else instead.
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Old December 14, 2018, 23:52   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MITZE View Post
How do Challenge and the Wrath curse compare to each other in terms of provoking the enemy? I'd take it that Challenge is more effective with high Song, but how does Wrath work?

EDIT: And how does it work if both are in effect at the same time?
Song of Challenge boosts enemy morale by a random factor which will be at most up to +3 per turn (though this may still be balanced out by other factors such as seeing their friends getting murdered). When morale is 5 or better, the enemy can switch from Confident to Aggressive.

Wrath removes Confident entirely, and makes monsters either Aggressive or Fleeing.

Song of Challenge stops ranged attackers from using ranged attacks and gets them to engage with you. It is also more effective at getting fleeing opponents to turn round and fight. Wrath is more effective if you just want to get your foe to Aggressive status. If you use both, your enemies will always be Aggressive, they won't use many ranged attacks and they're more likely to turn round and fight instead of fleeing.

Both of them make you more noticeable. Song of Challenge is noisy, Wrath increases monster perception.
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Old December 15, 2018, 00:32   #30
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About Morgoth's inability to sing the Song of Piercing during ascent:
I had no idea. Specifically, I didn't realize that he wasn't singing it at all (due to the mentioned bug). I'm wondering if this bug was noticed by anyone else before Quirk pointed it out. I request that this bug gets fixed asap, in my opinion. I'm leaving my current Sil-Q character on angband.live in limbo until the bug gets fixed and the Sil-Q on angband.live gets updated accordingly. I want to put up a fight with Morgoth to the end during the ascent. The "whispers" bug makes him too lame or much more lame than expected because he now can't sing the Song of Piercing.
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Last edited by HugoTheGreat2011; December 15, 2018 at 00:53.
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