Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 26, 2016, 18:41   #21
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,012
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
@estie--your estimate of how many arrows are necessary seems a bit high. True, if you are using lots of unenchanted ordinary ammo, you need lot. But you can generally avoid it by keeping your powder dry*: nearly all dangerous uniques are vulnerable to one or another slay or brand. (And if you don't have the right slay, just avoid the monster.) Assuming a suitable brand and 300 dam/shot, you need roughly 40 hits to kill even Ungoliant (the highest HP unique short of Morgoth). That is one quiver, plus a little mopping up with melee once she is down to 1 star and no longer a threat.
Earlier in the game, monsters tend to have around 1-2000 HP, so again, that's roughly 10-20 shots, assuming 100 dam/shot (no ego ammo, but enchanted.) Morgoth really is the exception: very high AC and HP combine for roughly 100 arrows of Slay Evil/Holy Might. (That's for an x4 bow with high to_dam. For an uber Lothlorien, or Bard, it is less.)

* mixed metaphor intentional
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2016, 19:06   #22
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,566
Estie is on a distinguished road
Oh I wasnt implying that current Vanilla requires too many arrows; on the contrary, it feels about right, I concur with you. But, if tedium gets reduced by measures like infinte ammo, designers might be tempted to reduce the damage per arrow to counter that, and that would then likely lead to plink plink archery.

I was just formulating a general rule of thumb for when archery feels right to me.
Estie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2016, 20:37   #23
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,012
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
The trouble comes in with the third shot and infinite +10 branded ammo. Then you are pretty reliably doing up to 1000+ per turn. The only weapon that compares is the Mod +2 attacks vs Undead. (Which in this game I also had :o ...although only after killing Sauron, so it was a bit too late to hunt down Cantoras and Vecna.)
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2016, 20:45   #24
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,546
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Yeah, another possible rebalancing I considered suggesting was to start rangers with +1 shot and not give them a third shot. That way they're pretty good at archery throughout the game (including in the crucial early game where they're currently somewhat garbage), but don't get ridiculously broken in the late game.

I never personally bothered with branding/enchanting ammo because it's boring. I wouldn't remotely object to removal of those spells.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2016, 20:54   #25
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,012
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Branding ammo is easy. I don't see how it can be boring, since it doesn't take any time. I agree enchanting is boring. The only ammo I commonly enchant is if it's an early, underpowered stack of Slay Evil or Acid Brand, which I try to get to +10,+10. It's simply too valuable to waste. Otherwise, I stick with the modest enchantment granted by brand ammo.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2016, 22:54   #26
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,216
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
The plan is for a redoing of classes with a reduction of spells in 4.2; I'm expecting rangers to change a bit there.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27, 2016, 17:31   #27
kaypy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 294
kaypy is on a distinguished road
Last time I played a ranger, I wound up hacking in a crude pathfind-to-nearest-ammo-on-ground mechanism. Essentially a run mode for cleaning up after the fight.

That made dealing with ammo a fair bit less obnoxious...
kaypy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27, 2016, 17:33   #28
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,012
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
@kaypy--that is a great idea! Please do share the code.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28, 2016, 13:15   #29
kaypy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 294
kaypy is on a distinguished road
Sorry, I'm trying to remember how long ago it was and I think it might have been in the '90s (and the code is long gone)...

Also it was a seriously trashy hack job.

I may have to try resurrecting it and maybe do a bit better a job of it...

IIRC, the basic mechanism was allowing
1) Target an item by type (I think by cval)
and
2) Run towards the target (I started with another hack I had to make a 'melee closest enemy' button analogous to the common mages 'just magic missile whatever' hotkey, these days it would just be a matter of commandeering the mouse based movement)

combined with some macro stuff.
kaypy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1, 2016, 01:50   #30
brbrbr
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 104
brbrbr is on a distinguished road
Pete, it's not Ranger that's imbalanced, it's Randarts.

After 7 games of Rogue+randart I am back to Ranger+standarts and the difference is noticeable. Lot of early drops like Westernesse, Bow of Power, Boots of Wormtongue, etc. on dl20. I wouldn't see that on randarts unitl dl 40 or so.

Somebody else on the forum also mentioned that randarts are harder in the earlier game and easier at the end. That's how it feels for me.
brbrbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rangers and Kelek's/Raal's Egavactip Vanilla 3 November 23, 2015 11:56
rangers and ammunition Tibarius Vanilla 25 February 22, 2015 05:46
Z+Angband rangers and shops budswell Variants 2 September 18, 2014 17:54
Balance is for n00bz! ekolis Development 0 September 25, 2012 15:29
The Balance Goal Is... Polyonymous Vanilla 2 April 14, 2009 20:07


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.