Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Obsolete > v4

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 7, 2013, 20:26   #21
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,565
Estie is on a distinguished road
Well...int and wis roles kindof suffer from the fact that, while they do help with the respective spell schools, there is the overriding of class that prevents non-class from using relevant spells.

With dex, it helps with attacks, wether you are warrior or mage. With int, it helps mage (and mage-related) only; no warrior ever gets better chance for red spells, nor priest, regardless of their int score. They are just prohibited from ever using any of the spells. Period.

This is the reason why int and wis are of less relevance than str and dex; allowing everyone to use all spells would fix it, but I dont think that is necessarily a good idea. I am ready to accept that int and wis are important only for relevant class and everyone else doesnt care much.
Estie is offline  
Old June 7, 2013, 20:46   #22
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,504
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Would it be reasonable to merge INT and WIS into a single stat? Then it would at least be important to 5 out of 6 of the classes, instead of only 2-3 out of 6.
Derakon is offline  
Old June 7, 2013, 22:34   #23
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,001
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Would it be reasonable to merge INT and WIS into a single stat? Then it would at least be important to 5 out of 6 of the classes, instead of only 2-3 out of 6.
I've been in favor of this approach for a while. 4 core stats, str, dex, con, mind. Do we really need more?
fizzix is offline  
Old June 7, 2013, 23:43   #24
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,565
Estie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I've been in favor of this approach for a while. 4 core stats, str, dex, con, mind. Do we really need more?
It wouldnt make the game worse or anything, but it also wouldnt be any kind of improvement imo. If the maxime is to create a situation where as many class/race combos as possible care as close as possible for the same item properties, then yes, but I see no reason whatsoever to move in that direction.

This change would reduce the types from 5 to 3 - warrior, mage, sub-mage, priest, sub-priest to warrior, pure caster, sub-caster. So what ?

Edit: to clarify: a mage finding boots with 10 speed and 10 wis is good reason for a post of dismay on the forum, but not bad for the game as a whole.

Last edited by Estie; June 7, 2013 at 23:49.
Estie is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 00:39   #25
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 995
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Id rather see both caster classes use Int for spell failure and number of spells, and Wis (rename to Power or Magic) for mana. This would create interesting choices.

But this would require rebalancing as casters would need to advance two stats rather than one. Probably need to make the progression earlier, ie 17 Pow gives a wizard more SP than 17 Int used to.

Also,.I think Int should help with identification - from pseudo id speed, right up to *Id* on pickup once you hit 18/150. And low Int should make scrolls unreliable.

And I think Pow/Mag should affect saving throws much more strongly than Wis does at present. And it should affect device power too.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/

Last edited by Antoine; June 8, 2013 at 00:44.
Antoine is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 03:02   #26
takkaria
Veteran
 
takkaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,859
Donated: $40
takkaria is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Id rather see both caster classes use Int for spell failure and number of spells, and Wis (rename to Power or Magic) for mana. This would create interesting choices.

But this would require rebalancing as casters would need to advance two stats rather than one. Probably need to make the progression earlier, ie 17 Pow gives a wizard more SP than 17 Int used to.

Also,.I think Int should help with identification - from pseudo id speed, right up to *Id* on pickup once you hit 18/150. And low Int should make scrolls unreliable.

And I think Pow/Mag should affect saving throws much more strongly than Wis does at present. And it should affect device power too.
I like these idas, with the exception of low Int making scrolls unreliable - all that does is set a minimum INT everyone has to have. Merging together INT/WIS loses the potential for more interesting character builds.

I especially like INT controlling ID stuff for some reason.
__________________
"Physician, heal thyself."
takkaria is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 09:26   #27
eMeM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 74
eMeM is on a distinguished road
For me it's not important how many stats we have. I want a tactical choice between strong/dumb mage or weak/wise one. Right now there is not much difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Also,.I think Int should help with identification - from pseudo id speed, right up to *Id* on pickup once you hit 18/150. And low Int should make scrolls unreliable.
.
Fast pseudo ID used to be one of few warriors advantages. Mage/priest don't need it because they can ID anything anyway. Even if it sounds good to have INT or WIS affect it, why change it?
eMeM is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 09:41   #28
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 995
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Reason for non caster classes to consider putting a bit of effort into mental stats
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 10:54   #29
eMeM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 74
eMeM is on a distinguished road
I mean in recent versions warriors lost their advantage over other classes with pseudo ID. This was a change I didn't like (don't get me wrong I like fast ID). Now we have a proposal to make auto ID disadvantage over others. Why make it easier for casters who already have ID spells and harder for warriors?

IMO it's obvious that warriors should be better in weapon armor identification, mages in magic devices identification, rangers in bows and ammo etc.

Last edited by eMeM; June 8, 2013 at 11:05.
eMeM is offline  
Old June 8, 2013, 23:18   #30
Estie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,565
Estie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eMeM View Post
I mean in recent versions warriors lost their advantage over other classes with pseudo ID. This was a change I didn't like (don't get me wrong I like fast ID). Now we have a proposal to make auto ID disadvantage over others. Why make it easier for casters who already have ID spells and harder for warriors?

IMO it's obvious that warriors should be better in weapon armor identification, mages in magic devices identification, rangers in bows and ammo etc.
Having int score affect speed of id doesnt necessarily disadvantage warriors. You can still give them a major bonus for being warriors; this could create a hierarchy of intelligent warrior > dumb warrior > intelligent mage > dumb mage.

However, I dont see where this would take any effect. By the time the int potions appear, my warriors tend to run with a stack of id staves anyway, and they drink int potions wether it benefits id or no; before that, favoring int over any other combat-improving property would reduce the combat effectiveness, and so not be done regardless. When saying "I want warriors to put emphasis on int", I would very much like to know what exactly they are supposed to replace with int. The damage ring ?
Estie is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chengband maulers' +1 INT bonus ekolis Variants 1 June 16, 2012 17:46
The Angband dungeon generation discussion thread andrewdoull Development 58 December 30, 2009 23:48
Why do gloves that give +int feel uncomfortable for a mage? Nightmarjoo Vanilla 9 September 27, 2009 07:47
'\xff' is an int ... apparently. PaulBlay Development 4 April 23, 2009 06:00
To everyone having problems with Angband starting slowly or not at all... takkaria Vanilla 3 January 9, 2009 08:09


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.