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Old August 4, 2010, 13:08   #1
fph
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Native depth visual spoiler

Yesterday I spent some time drawing this --- I hope you like it. It is a "visual" spoiler showing native depths and characteristics of the most dangerous monsters.
Suggestions, improvements? Do you think could be added to the docs?

Source code (in Asymptote) is included in the .zip together with the final pdf.
Attached Files
File Type: zip angband_timeline_v1.zip (36.2 KB, 286 views)
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Old August 4, 2010, 15:23   #2
ewert
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Very nice, IMHO, based on a quick glance.
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Old August 4, 2010, 16:47   #3
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This is quite excellent. I've been working on an algorithm of my own to calculate a "power rating" for each monster (and, eventually, a risk/reward power quotient). It isn't taking HP and AC in to consideration yet and needs further tuning but one thing that stood out to me testing the 'p' monsters was that it rated Harowen as more dangerous than Saruman. I actually think that makes sense and it looks like you would agree since you don't even list Saruman.
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Old August 4, 2010, 17:02   #4
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Neat, this sure could come in handy! Just a couple of things I noticed, the symbol for the dread is a Z instead of a G and the beholder hive-mother symbol is black on black, making it invisible. I guess the monster selection is very subjective, but to me it looks like you got most of the big killers covered!
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Old August 4, 2010, 17:08   #5
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I've been playing stupid (I mean carefreely, erhm, yes) and have to vote for gnome mages as the most surprisingly dangerous for new players. They can summon real nasty stuff if given free reign to do that (yeah went back to killing them in corridor turns not inside rooms ).
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Old August 4, 2010, 18:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullfame View Post
This is quite excellent. I've been working on an algorithm of my own to calculate a "power rating" for each monster (and, eventually, a risk/reward power quotient). It isn't taking HP and AC in to consideration yet and needs further tuning but one thing that stood out to me testing the 'p' monsters was that it rated Harowen as more dangerous than Saruman. I actually think that makes sense and it looks like you would agree since you don't even list Saruman.
Nullfame - rather than start from scratch, would you mind taking a look at the existing monster power rating code in init1.c? It would be helpful to take the best of your ideas with the best of what's there.
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Old August 4, 2010, 18:56   #7
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Oh, interesting... I didn't know there was such a thing. TBH I've never read the source in full, only grepped every once and a while when I was looking for something. I will give it a read.
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Old August 4, 2010, 19:08   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullfame View Post
Oh, interesting... I didn't know there was such a thing. TBH I've never read the source in full, only grepped every once and a while when I was looking for something. I will give it a read.
It's pretty ancient code - I wrote the original in ~2000 with a guy called Chris Robertson, and then UnAndrew improved it for Un, and then he and/or Takk added it to V. I think - I may have missed an incarnation or two. Anyway, it's quite sophisticated but still has some glitches in it (print out the power ratings of all the orcs, for example), so please do take a look. Also, if you wanted to describe your version and/or attach a code patch at http://trac.rephial.org/ticket/869, that would be great.
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Old August 4, 2010, 19:28   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullfame View Post
it rated Harowen as more dangerous than Saruman. I actually think that makes sense and it looks like you would agree since you don't even list Saruman.
I agree, though the opinion of more expert players than me would be welcome.
Maybe Harowen could go as well, he isn't really dangerous: he hits to steal items, so he just disappears by himself after a couple of hits. OTOH, he is one of the very few "incredibly quick" monsters, and can steal your only rod of recall if you're careless.

Saruman doesn't look so dangerous to me: he can't deal more than 125 dmg/turn (for a dlvl60 monster) and there is a lot of junk in his spell list. The only really dangerous thing is the 1/40 odds of summoning ancient dragons. EEK. Don't worry, I'll just leave the level and kill him next time.

Other opinions?

@Siggesigge: thanks for the corrections, I'll put up a new version... erm, somewhere. Maybe I should host it on github.
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Old August 4, 2010, 19:34   #10
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Quote:
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one thing that stood out to me testing the 'p' monsters was that it rated Harowen as more dangerous than Saruman. I actually think that makes sense and it looks like you would agree since you don't even list Saruman.
Harowen is not very dangerous, reason being that he runs away after attacking you in melee. He's annoying, and very hard to kill, but not actually much of a threat, especially since his only spell is Create Traps. Saruman, in contrast, has a few nasty spells, including brain smashing, water balls, summon demons, summon ancient dragons, and summon monsters. He's nowhere near as fast, but he'll stick around long enough to cast at least a few spells (though as fph notes, the spells chosen have good odds of being something pointless like blind, fireball, cause fear, etc).

In short, you should add a penalty to a monster's power rating if any of its melee attacks steal.
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