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Old April 4, 2016, 11:50   #91
PowerWyrm
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The new branch seems a good idea. As I said, you don't need to keep magical trap detection but you should keep physical detection. Perhaps take the middle path:
- remove Trap Detection spells EXCEPT for Rogues (thematic)
- remove Trap Detection devices
- keep Detection (spells + devices) detecting traps since they're higher level and would give an alternative to physical detection
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Old April 4, 2016, 18:57   #92
Rydel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
[list=1]
  • Make visible traps less avoidable. (Pretty difficult to achieve with Angband's many escape options.)
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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
TomeNET has a *lot* of varied traps, and except a few ones that I don't really like (the dreaded "drop all" trap -- which inside a vault could be followed by a fire trap in the next square -- or the seasoned traveler one which decreases your stacks to 1 or 2), they add a lot to the game. And they can be deadly at level 1 as well as at level 50!
Perhaps some traps could work with the escape options - For example, a "Dimensional Sinkhole" trap, where if you attempt any form of teleportation within a certain range of the trap, it teleports you to the location of the trap instead. (This trap should probably not be allowed in vaults, for obvious reasons.) This trap would also work on monsters as well, so it makes escaping harder, but can be useful when fighting monsters that like to teleport away.

This particular trap would also be a rare instance of a trap where being alone in the middle of a room actually works well.

I do like the idea of trapped doors and stairs. Perhaps that could be turned into a deliberate feature.
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Old April 5, 2016, 14:05   #93
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Did I succeed?
You convinced me not to play a solo mage in BGII.

It is an alternative that fits the scenario, but as you say, it sucks.

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Mages don't solve everything with magic. They use melee, ranged weapons, stealth, searching, disarming and potions like all the other characters.
Just because they can doesn't mean that they do. I've never used a ranged weapon as a mage. It should be possible to play the game as a pure mage, because that's how at least some of us play mages.

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Even if they did I don't see why it follows that they should be able to magically detect traps if it results in boring gameplay. Are we agreed that just magically detecting traps is boring?
Of course it's boring. Are you incapable of understanding what I'm talking about? Mages should approach traps differently to rogues and to warriors, and they should be implementing magic as their means of dealing with traps. The game changes should not remove the ability of mages to deal with traps with magic alone, but should be working to be "not boring".

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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
The new branch seems a good idea. As I said, you don't need to keep magical trap detection but you should keep physical detection. Perhaps take the middle path:
- remove Trap Detection spells EXCEPT for Rogues (thematic)
- remove Trap Detection devices
- keep Detection (spells + devices) detecting traps since they're higher level and would give an alternative to physical detection
Ok so rogues, who traditionally spot traps with their skills get a trap detection spell, but mages who use spells for everything difficult don't get such a spell? I fail to see how that is thematic at all.

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Correct if detecting traps is actually a thing everyone has to do. In this branch, though, everyone automatically sees traps when close enough. Sure, mages could still have a detect traps spell, but would you bother?

Actually, that's interesting - maybe you would. Maybe (I can't believe I'm saying this) trap detection should come back, but alongside the automatic noticing of traps, so rather than a thing everyone has to do it becomes a planning ahead tool that's only used sometimes.
I'm glad something new came of my rather scattered, reactionary thoughts on the matter, even if it doesn't help in the long run.
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Old April 5, 2016, 14:34   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivean View Post
Mages should approach traps differently to rogues and to warriors, and they should be implementing magic as their means of dealing with traps. The game changes should not remove the ability of mages to deal with traps with magic alone, but should be working to be "not boring".
By the end of this, all classes should have noticeably different approaches to traps.
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Old April 5, 2016, 14:43   #95
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Originally Posted by Carnivean View Post
Of course it's boring. Are you incapable of understanding what I'm talking about? Mages should approach traps differently to rogues and to warriors, and they should be implementing magic as their means of dealing with traps. The game changes should not remove the ability of mages to deal with traps with magic alone, but should be working to be "not boring".
Geez do you have to be so aggressive? What exactly is the point? This is usually a pretty friendly forum.

It seems you are against removing mages ability to magically detect traps and haven't suggested any other methods of mages dealing with them by magic, so I asked if you thought trap detection was boring. It was a pretty reasonable question I thought. Obviously not.
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Old April 7, 2016, 00:29   #96
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There are new Windows and OS X builds up for this branch.

The changes are:
  • Nomad's improved template rooms with specific trap positions are included.
  • Traps no longer appear on doors (I hope).
  • Disarming has been reworked, so there are now magical and physical traps, and two disarming skills (which are boosted by high INT and DEX respectively). Class aptitude for disarming has been changed to fit this, so for example mages are good at disarming magical traps and poor at physical ones, and warriors are the opposite.
  • There are several new traps. I encourage people to look at the traps file here, and design their own
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Old April 7, 2016, 00:56   #97
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Nick--I still recommend checking out NPP traps! They are much more effective since they do ranged damage.
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Old April 7, 2016, 06:08   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
  • Disarming has been reworked, so there are now magical and physical traps, and two disarming skills (which are boosted by high INT and DEX respectively). Class aptitude for disarming has been changed to fit this, so for example mages are good at disarming magical traps and poor at physical ones, and warriors are the opposite.
Should I assume this change breaks savefile compatabilty?
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Old April 7, 2016, 10:12   #99
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Should I assume this change breaks savefile compatabilty?
Yes, yes you should.

Nice catch
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Old April 7, 2016, 13:08   #100
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Any chance of getting the detection line back?
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