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Old September 8, 2010, 23:21   #1
Laie
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this is getting old.

Hello again,

two weeks since I was at cl/dl 20 and didn't quite dare to go deeper. Now it's cl33 / dl50.

There's now quite a few critters I'd rather not run into, like some of the better demons or nexuses(?), and many dogs which I can handle only if they come in single file. Otherwise I slay everything I can and sieve the loot, which appears to be the only way of getting better equipment.

In short: I've developed a few routines that work, and things have become very repetitive as of late. Will it stay that way? Another 50 levels of evade, slay, sieve doesn't exactly sound as if it was fun. What can I do?
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Old September 9, 2010, 02:30   #2
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Have you reached the point where undead come in mass through the walls for you? If not, you have that to look forward to. Good luck. Boredom frequently leads to death. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
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Old September 9, 2010, 03:06   #3
nullfame
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A character dump is always welcome, even when equipment choices aren't in question. I would love to see your turncount.

It's possible that you are playing too slow for your own tastes. You freely admit to not wanting to go beyond dl20 at cl20 so I suspect you may be too cautious, at this depth, for the game to be exciting. Without seeing your equipment, which I currently assume is overly powerful, you are good for dl60+.

If I had to bet you are going to die. Everybody does. It is a part of the game.

For me Angband, my favorite game of all time, is more fun when I am reckless (to a point) and die frequently than when I invest large swaths of time in to a character and am devastated by losing them. I try to cross dl20 at cl10 if I can. I also die a lot. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laie View Post
Another 50 levels of evade, slay, sieve doesn't exactly sound as if it was fun. What can I do?
I don't mean to be a jerk but what do you want? I don't know a lot about (video) game theory but I assume there are a finite number of game types and a finite number of strategies/objectives within them. There are very complicated ways you can intertwine these but a finite number of mechanisms nonetheless.

Evade, slay, and sieve are 3 of the most dominant objectives in Angband. Inventory management both short-term in your pack and long-term in your home are others. I don't know (again, chardump would help) if evade, slay, and sieve are boring to you or if the proportions are all wrong. If you find you are evading very little and slaying/sieve all the time you are too shallow. Strategic evasion becomes a more interesting part of gameplay as you dive beyond your comfort level. OTOH some people find this boring too. A lot of people like to win with the lowest possible turncount to challenge themselves. There is a middle ground everyone has to find. I suspect if you are bored now you are too shallow and too powerful.
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Old September 9, 2010, 10:05   #4
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About boredom: trying to go 24 hours without playing Angband, or even any game at all, often helps. Diving faster, as others said. If you are a fan of early levels, as I am, trying hard class/race combos. Crazy objectives (mushroom collecting is a popular one, shovel-only fight a famous one). Variants. Contributing content. Hacking.

Have fun!
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Old September 9, 2010, 13:52   #5
Laie
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Quoting nullfame:
> It's possible that you are playing too slow for your own tastes.
> You freely admit to not wanting to go beyond dl20 at cl20 so I
> suspect you may be too cautious, at this depth, for the game to
> be exciting.

That was back then. People told me to go deeper, which was really good advice. It wasn't always easy and I learned about quite a few monsters which I better avoid. Some I can tackle if I meet them alone, or can make them approach in single file, but quite a few should be avoided at all cost. I learned that "the hard way": I admit to having restored savefiles a few times in the past... and quite often during the past five levels.

>>
>> Another 50 levels of evade, slay, sieve
>>
>
> I don't mean to be a jerk but what do you want? I don't know
> a lot about (video) game theory but I assume there are a finite
> number of game types and a finite number of strategies/objectives
> within them.
>
> Evade, slay, and sieve are 3 of the most dominant objectives in Angband.
>

Well, hmmm. Yes.
But.
Most critters I can slay easily. And then there's a few that kill me, just as easily. It's mostly a resistance thing, I guess.

Thinking about it a little more, I believe the main problem (what makes the game rather tedious atm) is that there's no in-between, no close calls, no narrow escapes. It's instant death either way. I'm kind of level-scumming right now: first thing I do is using a rod of detection, and if I don't like what I see I turn back right on the staircase because I don't stand a chance. If I do like what I see... well, I still don't like it because it's all hapless minions.

If I keep playing, I'll sooner or later come across something that provides resistance to confusion. This will drastically widen the scope of monsters I can tackle. While I'm at it: is there anything, ever, that will protect me from being tossed around? Gravity hounds, and things that "command me to return"?

Code:
 [Angband 3.0.9b Character Dump]

 Name   Schnobs                                  Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Sex    Male              Age        28   STR:  18/97  -2  +2  +2 18/117
 Race   Hobbit            Height     36   INT:  18/58  +2  +2  +2 18/118
 Class  Ranger            Weight     59   WIS:  18/73  +1  +0  +2 18/103
 Title  Explorer          Status     69   DEX:  18/95  +3  +1  +2 18/155
 HP     364/442           Maximize    Y   CON! 18/100  +2  +1  +2 18/150
 SP     140/140                           CHR:  18/26  +1  +1  +0  18/46

 Level           33       Armor    [41,+77]     Saving Throw      Heroic
 Cur Exp     315622       Fight   (+25,+22)     Stealth           Superb
 Max Exp     315622       Melee   (+34,+35)     Fighting          Superb
 Adv Exp     385000       Shoot   (+40,+10)     Shooting       Legendary
 MaxDepth    Lev 52       Blows      5/turn     Disarming         Superb
 Turns      1548500       Shots      2/turn     Magic Device      Heroic
 Gold        360513       Infra       40 ft     Perception     Very Good
 Burden   195.0 lbs       Speed           1     Searching      Very Good

 You are one of several children of a Hobbit Shirriff.  You are a
 credit to the family.  You have brown eyes, straight black hair, and
 an average complexion.


      abcdefghijkl@       abcdefghijkl@
 Acid:.......++.... Blind:.........+...
 Elec:........+.... Confu:.............
 Fire:........+.... Sound:......+......
 Cold:........+.... Shard:.............
 Pois:............. Nexus:.............
 Fear:............. Nethr:.............
 Lite:........+.... Chaos:.............
 Dark:........+.... Disen:.............

      abcdefghijkl@       abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.......+...+.
Feath:............. Sear.:.........+...
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.......+.....
Invis:+........+... Blows:.............
FrAct:+............ Shots:.............
HLife:............+ Might:.+...........

  [Character Equipment]

a) a Katana of Westernesse (3d4) (+9,+13) (+2)
   It increases your strength, dexterity, and constitution by 2.  It
   slays orcs, trolls, and giants.  It grants you immunity to paralysis
   and the ability to see invisible things.
b) a Long Bow of Extra Might (x3) (+15,+10) (+1)
   It increases your shooting power by 1.
c) a Turquoise Ring of Damage (+15)
d) a Bloodstone Ring of Accuracy (+11)
e) The Jewel 'Evenstar'
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It might have hidden powers.
f) The Phial of Galadriel
   It usually provides light of radius 3.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  It might have hidden powers.
g) Gold Dragon Scale Mail (-2) [30,+20]
   It provides resistance to sound.  It activates for breathe sound
   (130) every 450+d450 turns.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.
h) The Cloak 'Holcolleth' [1,+9] (+2)
   It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2.  It increases your
   stealth and speed by 2.  It provides resistance to acid.  It
   activates for sleep II every 55 turns.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.
i) The Large Leather Shield of Celegorm [4,+20]
   It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, light, and
   dark.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.
j) a Golden Crown of Seeing [0,+9] (+1 to searching)
   It increases your searching by 1.  It provides resistance to
   blindness.  It grants you the ability to see invisible things.  It
   cannot be harmed by acid.
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Metal Shod Boots of Stealth [6,+9] (+3)
   It increases your stealth by 3.

  [Character Inventory]

a) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1}
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2}
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3}
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4}
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5}
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) a Book of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction] {@m6}
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
g) 10 Viscous Pink Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
h) 45 Scrolls titled "pio tas pisma" of Identify {@r1}
i) 5 Scrolls titled "erio lino appe" of Holy Chant
j) a Magnesium Rod of Recall {!z}
   It cannot be harmed by electricity.
k) 3 Cast Iron Rods of Detection (2 charging) {@z0}
   It cannot be harmed by electricity.
l) 2 Zinc-Plated Rods of Probing
m) 2 Copper-Plated Rods of Light (2 charging) {@z9}
n) 8 Aluminum-Plated Rods of Fire Bolts {@z1}
o) a Silver Rod of Cold Balls {@z2}
p) a Titanium Wand of Acid Balls (4 charges)
   It cannot be harmed by acid.
q) a Zirconium Wand of Dragon's Flame (2 charges) {!a!d!k}
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
r) a Banyan Staff of Enlightenment (3 charges)
s) a Cypress Staff of Speed (1 charge)
t) The Long Sword 'Anguirel' (2d5) (+8,+12) (+2)
   It increases your strength and constitution by 2.  It increases your
   speed by 2.  It slays demons and all evil creatures.  It is branded
   with poison.  It provides resistance to lightning, light, and dark.
   It usually provides light of radius 4.  It grants you immunity to
   paralysis and the ability to see invisible things, but it also
   aggravates creatures around you.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.
u) 24 Arrows (1d4) (+3,+5) {@f1}
v) 95 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0) {@f0}

  [Home Inventory]

a) 10 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1}
b) 6 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {@m2}
c) 6 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] {@m3}
d) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations] {@m4}
e) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices] {@m5}
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) a Book of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
g) a Book of Magic Spells [Mordenkainen's Escapes]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.
h) 21 Grey Speckled Potions of Speed
i) 9 Indigo Potions of Healing
j) a Light Green Potion of *Healing*
k) 77 Scrolls titled "pio tas pisma" of Identify {@r1}
l) 49 Scrolls titled "revis adia" of Enchant Weapon To-Dam {@r1}
m) 12 Scrolls titled "erio lino appe" of Holy Chant
n) 3 Ivory Rods of Acid Bolts
o) an Adamant Amulet of Charisma (+4)
   It increases your charisma by 4.  It sustains your charisma.
p) a Crystal Amulet of Regeneration
   It speeds your regeneration.
q) a Cloak of Aman [1,+24] (+3 to stealth)
   It increases your stealth by 3.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  It might have hidden powers.
r) a Small Leather Shield of Elvenkind [2,+11] (+1 to stealth)
   It increases your stealth by 1.  It provides resistance to acid,
   lightning, fire, cold, and chaos.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.
s) The Large Metal Shield of Anarion [5,+20]
   It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold.  It
   sustains all your stats.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.
t) 21 Seeker Bolts (4d5) (+6,+7)
u) 30 Arrows (1d4) (+5,+4)
v) 30 Seeker Arrows of Venom (4d4) (+13,+11)
   It is branded with poison.
w) 23 Mithril Shots (2d4) (+13,+10)
   It cannot be harmed by acid.
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Old September 9, 2010, 14:12   #6
buzzkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laie View Post
Thinking about it a little more, I believe the main problem (what makes the game rather tedious atm) is that there's no in-between, no close calls, no narrow escapes.
You have to search out, essentially create these situations for yourself. The unscripted nature of Angband requires it. Try [ducks] easing back on your detection. While more likely to die, probably more likely to have fun too.
Quote:
If I keep playing, I'll sooner or later come across something that provides resistance to confusion. This will drastically widen the scope of monsters I can tackle. While I'm at it: is there anything, ever, that will protect me from being tossed around? Gravity hounds, and things that "command me to return"?
Resist confusion is hard to come by (artifact only?). Use speed and CCW until then. Resist nexus should help with hostile teleportation (boots of stability).
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Old September 9, 2010, 14:22   #7
Sirridan
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Resist Confusion also comes from crown of serenity, random resist on Aman and Elvenkind, and bronze DSM, but yes, it is quite rare and important.
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Old September 9, 2010, 15:05   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
You have to search out, essentially create these situations for yourself. The unscripted nature of Angband requires it. Try [ducks] easing back on your detection. While more likely to die, probably more likely to have fun too.
I would actually recommend playing with disconnected stairs. (or in your case *never* taking the stairs you came in on). Force yourself to find another set of up or down stairs. It adds another element to the game. So, you're at dlevel 50 but you're only self selecting levels with the danger of dlevel 30. That's why it's boring to you.

With 440 hit points, the only things that should scare you at your current depth is AMHDs and drolems. You have enough stealth not to worry about waking the dragons, and you can cast rpoison to survive an encounter until you can TO them. Until you hit wyrm death nothing else should be able to insta-kill you.

The only thing you're really missing is speed. There's no reason to carry 45 scrolls of identify, they're weighing you down too much.
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Old September 9, 2010, 18:22   #9
Tiburon Silverflame
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I'd also adjust the equipment set, so you use more of what you can do, not what your equipment does. The major things I see to consider removing: the scrolls of identify, as fizzix noted, the rods of light and fire bolts (check the damage you do with the spell, compared to what they do...and check against your *bow* damage. You should have 2 shots, so I'd be trying to gather up more magical ammo to use...but with that nice bow, even the non-magical arrows should be doing more damage), and probably the staff of speed, if you can cast the spell yourself with a decent fail rate.

Also, don't be hoarding those enchant weapon to damage scrolls...use them. Break up your non-magical arrows into chunks of about 30, then enchant them up to +5 or so. Do the same with another group of 30, then combine so you've got 60 arrows (0,+5). These can become your standard ranged attack, rather than the rods. And, heck, you've got some lower-end magical arrows at home; why leave them there? Use them now. You'll want only branded arrows in the none-too-distant future, or at least much higher-damage mithral and seeker arrows; (+10,+10) ammo isn't too far off.

Finally, you've got a cloak of Aman that has a "hidden power". ID it. It has, as someone noted, a random high resist.

You can also do some clearing out of your home. The high spell books can just be sold; they can't be destroyed. Several other things are also pretty much useless.
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Old September 9, 2010, 18:59   #10
cinereaste
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Using the squelch system effectively really helps cut down the tedium of the sieving process. If you're not already using squelch liberally, you might want to consider it.

Also, for your next character, I'd upgrade to 3.1.2v2 - I found it more exciting than 3.0.9.
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