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View Poll Results: What is stopping you from playing Unangband?
Haven't heard of it. 3 8.33%
It doesn't sound that interesting. 3 8.33%
There's too many other variants out there. 17 47.22%
I've tried it and didn't like it. 6 16.67%
I've tried it and am waiting for the next release. 7 19.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 15, 2007, 05:42   #121
andrewdoull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
That is strange. Is 3.0.9 working? It was built using the same XCode, and shares a lot of the same code in main.nib. (3.0.8 is even closer; the only difference w/ UnAngband is the 'about' popup.)
I've experienced so many problems with SVN corrupting files at the moment that this wouldn't surprise me if there was an issue there. I'll follow up and see what I can do.
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Old November 15, 2007, 06:50   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanza View Post
Vanilla Angband 3.0.9 compiles without any problems whatsoever. And the nib happily loads in Interface Builder.

So, I copied main.nib from Angband 3.0.9 (it's a folder) into UnAngband 0.6.2 and the first time I try it, it gives me a permissions error, but I learn my lesson this time, make -f Makefile.osx clean; make -f Makefile.osx and it works!
That's good news!
If you want to check your work into SVN, here are the differences.

The only functional difference between the nibs is in the 'special' menu. The Angband special menu only has two entries since sound was turned into a game option. The UnAngband menu has 3 (4 counting the empty row.) If you want that menu to work properly, fix main.nib so that it matches the values in osx_tables.h. Otherwise, when you check sound, you will be enabling wizard mode. (And I don't know what will happen if you check wizard or fiddle. Fiddle isn't supposed to do anything; it's a convenience for debugging, left over from the dark ages.)

The 'about' page is different. All it has in it is the product name, copyright and primary authors. From objects.xib:


UnAngband
Macintosh Version
unangband@yahoogroups.com

Copyright (c) 2006
Andrew Doull
Robert Ruehlmann
Robert A Koeneke
James E Wilson
and many other people...
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Old November 15, 2007, 06:54   #123
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... And one other thing. The first menu title in the menu bar should be UnAngband not Angband.
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Old November 16, 2007, 20:43   #124
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I downloaded the svn source rather than the "source" link from the UnAngband web page, and that compiles for Mac with no problems. So I think the problem is only in your source distribution.

By the way, I got this:

svn checkout svn://svn.berlios.de/unangband/trunk
svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused

(This is advertised as available at http://developer.berlios.de/svn/?group_id=331)

Checking out by http worked fine, though. No firewall issues here; I use svn frequently from various (okay, two) hosts and have never had a problem.
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Old February 3, 2008, 18:37   #125
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Forgive me if resurrecting two-month old threads is frowned upon on this forum (I know that can be a cardinal sin in some places) but I thought that perhaps since I'm a raw newbie to Angband types, my comments might be useful to the developer.

It's only been a couple of weeks since I began trying anything other than Nethack, and Unangband was actually the first that I tried. Confusion is what turned me away from it initially, but having read this thread and having played a different type convinced me to give it another go.

The two main things that caused me to drop Unangband when I first tried it were:
* lack of documentation on the basics crucial to gameplay
* graphics seeming 'unfinished', which led to further confusion

Now, to be more precise:

When I press '?' I get only an error message saying that it couldn't find the help files. Whether they just haven't been implemented, or perhaps something went wrong during the download and installation, I'm not sure, but for a bonafide raw newbie who's never played these games, I was utterly at a loss without -any- help files at all.

I missed the message at the start that told which area to go to (silly pup jumped up and hit a key that cleared the screen before I read it) and I didn't know at the time that I could see it again by pressing ^P. So I went to the wrong area and was quickly killed before even having gained a level. Very frustrating due to the fact that I didn't know what to avoid next time. So including that in one of those beginning 'notes' would be helpful for people who've never played this type of game before.

It was a bit frustrating that the 'notes' told me to purchase certain things before heading into a dungeon, but none of the shops I found had any to sell. Minor point, but it's another factor that added into the confusion and frustration that caused me to give the game up so quickly.

I don't know whether the 'notes' are planned to be included as part of the help system, but it would be a very good idea. I'd love to be able to refer back to them, rather than jot everything down in a text file for fear I might forget something later.

The graphics was a major sticking point for me, and I imagine it's one of those unfinished features of the game, so I'm probably not about to tell you anything that you don't know. I'm one of those people who don't do well with ascii - I always opt for a graphical option instead. After trying all the different graphics, I found them all to have missing tiles that would revert to ascii, which to me made monsters look too similar to walls, and as a result, I often blundered into unintended fights. Also, I found that bringing up the command screen or other text often resulted in some of the text being transfered to the tiles, which I couldn't find a way to clear, and that made the entire screen that much more confusing. I also found that some things would cause black bars to appear in sections of the tiles after bringing up text, which also wouldn't go away. The end result of both problems can make a real mess of the screen.

After killing off several characters before having gained a level, I gave up in frustration, in the hopes that some other variant would be less confusing to learn. That proved to be quite true.

Now, I went back last night and gave the game another shot (which by the way was a direct result of reading this thread - very wise of you to realize that bringing up the subject periodically helps to keep the game alive and encourage people to try it). After having played a different variant, I knew a bit more of the basics, and that definitely makes it easier to understand what's going on.

The graphics remain a major problem for me, though. Something new I noticed - I entered a dark area in the dungeon and thought my torch must have gone out, so I refueled it, only to find that for some reason those tiles remained dark. Perhaps it's meant to be permanently dark, or it might be another of those 'missing graphic tile' problems, I have no clue.

Another quirk that bothered me was when I was given a choice to raise a stat. I did what it told me to do, but every key I pressed only resulted in a 'ding', until I finally hit escape, which resulted in the game then telling me I could choose two stats. It took my choices easily that time. I have no clue why it worked that time and not the first.

'Study' appeared on the bottom of my screen, but I couldn't find anything in the commands that told me -how- I was supposed to study. I can only assume it means I can learn a spell or something if I buy a book, but this is one of those times where some very basic documentation would clear up a lot of confusion and frustration.

It took me a bit to realize that the 'HungNext' I saw at the bottom of the screen meant I was hungry and the word was just running into 'Next'. Still not sure why the 'Next' is there, but it never seems to leave. It's possible that it only looks that way in the combination of graphics options I'm using, I have no idea (Gervais, big tile mode).

After turning off search mode in an area I had already explored (in an effort to conserve food), I found that the game turned it back on when I wasn't looking. That's fine, it's obviously intentionally coded into the game, but here again, something in documentation that mentioned this would prevent some head scratching. At first, I thought I'd done something wrong, and it took a bit to realize that it's just something the game does for me.

I thought the 'sneak' mode was a nifty little addition, though. I'm sure I'll enjoy that.

When selling some unidentified potions to a shop, it didn't acknowledge in the text portion of the window that I'd successfully sold them, or what they turned out to be. So each time I sold something, I had to use ^P to see what they were. I found this to be inconvenient compared to other games that print it right on the screen. And a raw newbie to this type of game wouldn't know to bring up their previous messages to see what their potions had turned out to be.

All in all, I -am- impressed with the game, and it really does seem to have a great deal of potential, so I plan to stick with it to check it out further. Andrew has obviously put in SO much time and effort into this, and seems to have some wonderful ideas. But I'm afraid that the lack of documentation is bound to put people off. It can literally make it impossible for those who've never played Angband types before, as it did for me that first go-round. My suggestion would be that there must be some aspects of the game that don't change all that frequently (or ever), very basic things, that could be documented. And if you're the sort who has no time / hates writing documentation, then you might possibly consider asking someone else who's very familiar with the game to do some. Even a little on basic game mechanics and such would be better than the nearly none that exists at the moment. And I'd also suggest getting those graphics problems solved, if possible.

My appreciation goes out to ALL the developers and maintainers of these games that we enjoy so much. Kudos!
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Old February 3, 2008, 19:01   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
Forgive me if resurrecting two-month old threads is frowned upon on this forum (I know that can be a cardinal sin in some places) but I thought that perhaps since I'm a raw newbie to Angband types, my comments might be useful to the developer.
Your timing is perfect, because we've just released 0.6.2-beta. It's being packaged by the legitimate maintainer this time, so if your problems persist, they are not packaging related and we should have a chance to fix them before 0.6.2-final, with your testing help. I'll try to look at them shortly, but pretty please try beta, when your port is out, and tells us what's changed.
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Old February 3, 2008, 19:03   #127
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Originally Posted by stanza View Post
I downloaded the svn source rather than the "source" link from the UnAngband web page, and that compiles for Mac with no problems. So I think the problem is only in your source distribution.
Could you please try the new beta sources?

Quote:
By the way, I got this:

svn checkout svn://svn.berlios.de/unangband/trunk
svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
Yeah, berlios is fussy...
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Old February 4, 2008, 05:22   #128
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I'll definitely watch that download page and give the beta a whirl once it comes out for Windows.
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Old February 5, 2008, 04:18   #129
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Alrighty, I did a bit of playing on the new beta, and with very good results:

The help system is working now. Yay!

The graphics problem where it superimposed text onto tiles happens far less often. Before, it was happening nearly every time I brought up a message screen. With this beta, it's only happened a couple of times.

The other graphics problem where black bars appeared in a segment of the screen and wouldn't leave - I haven't noticed that happening in the beta at all so far.

The missing tiles that revert to ascii are still the same, and I've tried with all of the different graphics types to verify that those tiles are missing in all of them. So I assume they're just new goodies added after the graphics were made. The main problem with that (besides the fact that ascii contrast tends to give many people headaches, including little ol' me) is that there some instances where several different things are using the same color/symbol combination, making them impossible to differentiate without examining them, which is a bit of a pain when those tiles occur every few steps. It wouldn't be such a problem if it only happened with wall/floor tiles that weren't dangerous, but I've found at least one instance where the same symbol was used for a wall tile and a low level monster - the colors were slightly different, but unless both were present in close proximity, I couldn't differentiate between them.

Those were the biggest detractors from the game for me before, and this is a major improvement, even if the graphics still needs some tiles.

As I go, I'm jotting down little things that seem to need fixing, all very minor so far, and I suppose an official bug report would be the best way to let you know what I've found. I believe I saw a link for that on the blog site.

You guys are doing a great job, and I thank you for it.
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Old February 5, 2008, 13:58   #130
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Thanks a lot!

Quote:
I don't know whether the 'notes' are planned to be included as part of the help system, but it would be a very good idea. I'd love to be able to refer back to them, rather than jot everything down in a text file for fear I might forget something later.
Good idea. I've added it to our bug tracker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
The graphics problem where it superimposed text onto tiles happens far less often. Before, it was happening nearly every time I brought up a message screen. With this beta, it's only happened a couple of times.
I've put it on our bug tracker at
https://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?f...3&group_id=331

If you see any other graphics problems, please let us know. If you see any regularity, like problems with only one tileset --- please report as well. That some features miss tiles is a known problem. I think there is even a tool to ease assigning tiles to features, but somebody just has to do it all the time the game changes, preferably someone that plays with tiles. :<

Quote:
As I go, I'm jotting down little things that seem to need fixing, all very minor so far, and I suppose an official bug report would be the best way to let you know what I've found. I believe I saw a link for that on the blog site.
You'll be really welcome, but in case of troubles, here is a good place for bug reports, too. Corrections to documentation are especially valuable (docs usually lag behind the game, just as the tiles) and especially from fresh players. Your documentation complains from the previous post seem great ideas, so if they were presented as English sentences ready to insert into the docs, some of them would land there at once...

Quote:
It took me a bit to realize that the 'HungNext' I saw at the bottom of the screen meant I was hungry and the word was just running into 'Next'. Still not sure why the 'Next' is there, but it never seems to leave. It's possible that it only looks that way in the combination of graphics options I'm using, I have no idea (Gervais, big tile mode).
There should be a space between Hung and NEXT. Does it persist in other tile modes? In ASCII mode?

Quote:
After turning off search mode in an area I had already explored (in an effort to conserve food), I found that the game turned it back on when I wasn't looking.
This is controlled by the option easy_search under "=1", off by default. Did you toggle that option? Does it work OK with the option turned off?

Quote:
When selling some unidentified potions to a shop, it didn't acknowledge[...]
What is your easy_more option set to? The option is still broken, I think, so it should be off. Perhaps you could try resetting all your options to default (delete or move some configuration file?) and try again? Or do a fresh install (wiping out the previous version)?

Good luck in your games and do post on the ladder once you conquer a dungeon or two.

Last edited by Bandobras; February 5, 2008 at 14:11.
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