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Old January 21, 2016, 19:42   #1
CoolgyFurlough
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Monster Spoilers

I'm a new Angband player, and after having extensively played other roguelikes like NetHack where spoilers are pretty much required, I wonder how the Angband community thinks about them. Does the community consider full monster spoilers cheating, and do most players use / not use them?
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Old January 21, 2016, 20:27   #2
Rydel
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They aren't typically viewed as that bad. They're a lot less important than NetHack, but they do still include some things to watch out for - mostly which enemies can 1-shot you from range. Mostly unresisted breath attacks.
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Old January 21, 2016, 21:31   #3
Derakon
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Yeah, the only "insider knowledge" that's really vital to successful play is knowing which monsters can one-shot you, and as a corollary, how to avoid getting into situations in which you can get one-shot. There's nothing game-changing the way knowing about Elbereth is in NetHack. And the vast majority of players do not consider use of monster spoilers to be cheating.
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Old January 22, 2016, 07:49   #4
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
And the vast majority of players do not consider use of monster spoilers to be cheating.
Not sure about that. It is definitely "cheating", but in very minor way, because that's just knowledge you accumulate by playing anyway.

There isn't anything in angband that is practically impossible to learn without spoilers unlike in Nethack.
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Old January 22, 2016, 08:33   #5
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Not sure about that.
Without running a poll it'd be hard to prove, but I agree with Derakon. The 4.x.x versions even come with instructions to add the monster info from the start without using the cheat options.
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Old January 22, 2016, 08:39   #6
Timo Pietilš
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Without running a poll it'd be hard to prove, but I agree with Derakon. The 4.x.x versions even come with instructions to add the monster info from the start without using the cheat options.
Maybe that's matter of defining "cheat" more than difference in opinion what the action is.
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Old January 22, 2016, 13:24   #7
Ingwe Ingweron
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Maybe that's matter of defining "cheat" more than difference in opinion what the action is.
I used to play through several games, probing absolutely everything, even going back to town and descending a second time just to probe every little monster that I missed, and on second or third games, leaving every unique alive that hadn't been probed then returning to town and descending until I found them all. Even did it again at Christmas once, just to add Red-hatted elves and Father Christmas to the file. A painfully time consuming way to get an absolutely full knowledge file.

I tend to run with a full knowledge lore.txt file now. I've played the game so many times now that I know what all the monsters do, but I still have "senior" moments when I forget the difference between say, a Nightwalker and a Nightcrawler. I don't consider it cheating, but rather obviating the need for me to take notes. Trying to remember which monster does what or playing multiple "probing" games no longer interests me.
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Old January 22, 2016, 13:39   #8
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I've played the game so many times now that I know what all the monsters do, but I still have "senior" moments when I forget the difference between say, a Nightwalker and a Nightcrawler.
Very good example. I too always wonder which is this, the one that breathes nether or the one that hits to disenchant. Or were they both on just one of the types, in which case which is it? Can't remember now either.

Not that that has much difference to my playing though. Just that when I don't have full memory I tend to use rDisen as main resist, and when I do it is a swap (if there is another, better alternative).
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Old January 26, 2016, 22:40   #9
Rowan
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I wouldn't call it cheating, and I don't judge anybody for using them, but I just don't feel right about using full spoilers in my own play.
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Old January 27, 2016, 08:15   #10
Timo Pietilš
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I wouldn't call it cheating, and I don't judge anybody for using them, but I just don't feel right about using full spoilers in my own play.
That's exactly what I meant about different definition of "cheat". To me something that isn't default game feature and makes game easier is a cheat. Spoilers or full monster memory (without actually learning all the monsters) would then count as a cheat.
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