Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > AAR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 2, 2009, 03:53   #1
miyazaki
Adept
 
miyazaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 227
miyazaki is on a distinguished road
Worst Randart Ever...

Well, maybe not worst, but definitely the most boring. The thrill of seeing {special} died a limp death as I ID'ed this:

Code:
l) The War Hammer of Adorn (3d3) (+7,+5)
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     Combat info:
     4 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 34.7
miyazaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 12:21   #2
Mondkalb
Knight
 
Mondkalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 900
Mondkalb is on a distinguished road
That's more a hammer o'darn ...
or a hammer of o darn!
Mondkalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 15:48   #3
Zikke
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,067
Zikke is on a distinguished road
I had a very similar randart last week. Basic weapon, no special powers. Might as well be a {magical} item that can't be broken.


-______-
__________________
A(3.1.0b) CWS "Fyren_V" NEW L:50 DL:127 A++ R+++ Sp+ w:The Great Axe of Eonwe
A/FA W H- D c-- !f PV+++ s? d P++ M+
C- S+ I- !So B ac++ GHB? SQ? !RQ V F:
Zikke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 16:28   #4
Schroeder
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19
Schroeder is on a distinguished road
If only it was cursed and agro'd. THEN it'd be the worst.
Schroeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 19:32   #5
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyazaki View Post
Well, maybe not worst, but definitely the most boring. The thrill of seeing {special} died a limp death as I ID'ed this:

Code:
l) The War Hammer of Adorn (3d3) (+7,+5)
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     Combat info:
     4 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 34.7
What version was this? That's a terribly weak randart, and shouldn't happen in dev versions of 3.1.1 (post r1248).
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 21:23   #6
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
At least it's well named. A warhammer of adornment.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 21:47   #7
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
What version was this? That's a terribly weak randart, and shouldn't happen in dev versions of 3.1.1 (post r1248).
Are you sure some mixed artifact like boots of wormtongue cannot evaluate to boring? If the power code weakens speed sufficiently, that could eventually have 0 power.

Speaking of which, did you ever include weight in the power algorithm? 30 lb of weight should equal -1 speed. That may make things like iron helms have negative power, but IMO that could be correct. I was perturbed to sell a cloak [1, +4] and see it was cheaper than an iron helm [5, +0].

You may need to modify the randart algorithm to guarantee substantial mixed qualities when the base power is close to 0, or else just enforce a minimum power value for any randart even if the standart evaluates to junk.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 22:20   #8
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Are you sure some mixed artifact like boots of wormtongue cannot evaluate to boring? If the power code weakens speed sufficiently, that could eventually have 0 power.
Where did you get the idea that speed is weakened? Relative to what?
Quote:
Speaking of which, did you ever include weight in the power algorithm? 30 lb of weight should equal -1 speed. That may make things like iron helms have negative power, but IMO that could be correct. I was perturbed to sell a cloak [1, +4] and see it was cheaper than an iron helm [5, +0].
This is a combination of things. Mainly it's because base AC is rated at 1.5x +ac, because base AC can't be disenchanted. That 1.5x is too high, it should be more like 1.2x, but I don't have that sort of granularity available (I'm using a doubled integer scale, so 0.5 is the smallest increment).

It's partly because I did give up on trying to factor in weight. Heavy armours are already far far cheaper than they were before power-based pricing, and penalising them for their weight exacerbates this problem, while gaining very few benefits (the reduction in power for things like heavy helms and shields was lost in integer arithmetic so as to be negligible).

One way I plan to modify this is to make the power scale for base AC nonlinear. An iron helm isn't really worth as much as a +6 cloak, but +0 mithril plate is worth more than +7 ribbed plate. Once I do that I can return to the weight issue without it gimping the armour prices.
Quote:
You may need to modify the randart algorithm to guarantee substantial mixed qualities when the base power is close to 0, or else just enforce a minimum power value for any randart even if the standart evaluates to junk.
Well, after 3.1.1 is out I plan to separate positive and negative attributes completely - negative attributes won't be part of the power rating at all (apart from for pricing purposes) - the randarts will be generated against all positive attributes, and then the right proportion of negatives will be sprinkled among them. This will prevent things like Wormtongue turning into junk.

I'm still interested in what version the OP was using. Even Wormtongue has never turned into quite such a boring item for me - though I guess it's possible for one of 130 randarts to be junk every few games ...
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 23:02   #9
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Where did you get the idea that speed is weakened? Relative to what?
Compared to how it used to be.

Quote:
It's partly because I did give up on trying to factor in weight.
There's no need to factor. 30 lbs = -1 speed is totally obvious. The only problem is that you are approximating non-linear things with an additive power ranking. That's a general problem, not a "what is the penalty of weight" problem.

E.g. I tossed leather scale of resist acid [useless wormtongue drop] even though it was my only source of rAcid, to wear a robe[2, +6] in my current game. It just wasn't worth the weight.

Quote:
Heavy armours are already far far cheaper than they were before power-based pricing, and penalising them for their weight exacerbates this problem
If you believe in power pricing, it is not a "problem" to price heavy armors cheaper.

If an iron helm [5,+0] costs more than a leather cap [2, +0] you've still got it wrong IMO. I always toss the former to keep the latter once my pack fills to the point I need to make a choice. 3 points of AC isn't worth worrying about being speed (-1) even occasionally.

The reason to wear the cap [other than as a placeholder for additional magical AC enchantment] is not for the 2, but in case of saving some damage from an acid breath. Does your power algorithm take that into consideration? I.e. that any good or avg armor regardless of AC has a chance to reduce acid damage. First approximation is (value of rAcid) * (1/6) * (1/3) / (1/2) but that is wrong because multiple rAcid do not help but multiple armors do. I'd say every armor [without AC minuses] should start with value rAcid/3 or maybe even rAcid/2. You could think of some of that as the value of a placeholder for recipient of future ?enchant as well [an additional fixed significant value]. That might avoid some negative prices when armor weight is taken into account.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2, 2009, 23:31   #10
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
Is there some way to find out what the base artifact is? I can't think of anything nearly this lame that doesn't have an activation.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trying to trace a randart bug (or two, in fact) Magnate Vanilla 3 May 7, 2009 23:10
New randart code in trunk Magnate Vanilla 1 February 8, 2009 16:17
Animeband - The worst variant ever ehuangsan Variants 50 June 21, 2008 07:51


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.