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Old April 8, 2013, 14:35   #11
half
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Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Personally I don't think the game is really balanced to allow anything with a base 2 Str. You'd have to a base dex of at most -2 which would make the start horrendous.
A bigger issue is that while Dex, Con, Gra scale up nicely with higher values, Strength doesn't. Gameplay-wise this manifests in the weapon-weights limiting the strength bonus and pushing very strong characters to a small set of weapons (though this is a bit less of an issue since the change to two handed strength limits, and the addition of Momentum). Design-wise we balanced the weapons against each other on the assumption of most strength scores being from 0 to 4. Flavourwise, it is because weapons are made for people of realistic strength. Smiths could have made them much heavier or unwieldy, but had no need to.

Note that we have even removed some strength bonuses from the game in the latest version (Rings? Some artefact bonuses?) in order to have more play at the levels of strength it was balanced around. I think it was seeing someone put a bastard sword in their off-hand because they had Str 7 that catalysed this.
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Old April 8, 2013, 18:03   #12
andrey
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Originally Posted by Patashu View Post
Not sure how this one would work. Would it use the same exp pool as the one for killing monsters? It would be an interesting way for more "pacifist" builds to get exp...
Same pool sounds fine to me. Because right now I am finding myself chasing monsters hoping they will not descend down the stairs in order to avoid XP loss.

Last edited by andrey; April 8, 2013 at 23:57.
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Old April 8, 2013, 21:53   #13
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
The most likely candidates for new Sil races IMHO would be:
  • Druedain (like the wild men that helped the Rohirrim before the battle of the Pelennor);
  • Nandor/Laiquendi - the green elves of Ossiriand. Like Sindar, but stealthier and less tough
  • Avari (sometimes called dark elves) - refused the original summons to Valinor, had no allegiance to the Noldor and Sindar kings
  • Easterlings - the men who came to Beleriand much later than the Edain

Ents maybe, but they were more creatures of the Valar (like the eagles) than regular beings.
But I *do* kind of like the idea mentioned upthread of playing as an orc.

You're a traitor dreaming of greatness... something like that.
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Old April 8, 2013, 22:05   #14
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Same pool sounds fine to me. Because right now I am finding myself chasing monsters hoping they will not descend down the stairs in order to avoid HP loss.
+1. Only point is, sometimes when monsters are not aware of you they go up/down the stairs as a part of their normal "walking around" path. Would that give you experience or not? "No" sounds like the more sensible choice here, but it requires checking some additional condition (monster is afraid AND descends the stairs?).

And what happens if I encounter an unique and it flees down the stairs? Does it count as killed or not? If yes, I am being robbed of their drops. If no, woo, an exploitable way to get lots of extra XP from uniques!
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Old April 8, 2013, 22:25   #15
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+1. Only point is, sometimes when monsters are not aware of you they go up/down the stairs as a part of their normal "walking around" path. Would that give you experience or not? "No" sounds like the more sensible choice here, but it requires checking some additional condition (monster is afraid AND descends the stairs?).
Only get experience for frightened non-unique monsters, I'd guess.
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Old April 8, 2013, 22:26   #16
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I don't care about fleeing personally, it's (very) annoying but it does give value to having a ranged attack when you otherwise wouldn't bother, you run out of xp on most monsters anyway. Instead of giving the xp when they flee down stairs, it would be better to instead give this xp as you do damage to them, as happens in poscheng.

Last edited by clouded; April 8, 2013 at 23:10.
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Old April 8, 2013, 23:56   #17
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Cool

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Originally Posted by half View Post
A bigger issue is that while Dex, Con, Gra scale up nicely with higher values, Strength doesn't.
I guess you are right, but high starting Str does not necessarily means that I'd buff it up a lot. It would be nice to start with a character strong and tough (Con). For example, if I had an ungraceful race that starts with (2,0,2,0), I'd make it (4,3,4,0). (Hope I did the math right). I don't really like using songs anyway, so every grace point is almost a waste for my characters.

Another interesting idea is to give bonuses to some skills based on strength - for example - "knockout". Also, if you'd remove a restriction from having N items only, no matter what their weight is, it would give a tremendous benefit to strength.
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Old April 9, 2013, 00:01   #18
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+1.
And what happens if I encounter an unique and it flees down the stairs? Does it count as killed or not? If yes, I am being robbed of their drops. If no, woo, an exploitable way to get lots of extra XP from uniques!
I think that unique monsters that escape should not leave items. That is the price for frightening and not killing. Otherwise you are shifting the balance too much for players that'd abuse staffs of majesty, auras of majesty ,etc.

In my opinion, a monster that flees should never be seen again, being too afraid of the PC. So its almost like killing (except the items), and gives you XP from the same pool.
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Old April 9, 2013, 00:03   #19
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But I *do* kind of like the idea mentioned upthread of playing as an orc.

You're a traitor dreaming of greatness... something like that.
+1, Orcs sound great. They could have melee mastery, archery penalty and perception penalty.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:11   #20
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+ Give even more XP for some non-slaying actions:
- Making a monster flee down the stairs (To avoid unnecessary kills)
We decided to give out half the experience for monsters if you overcome them in a way that doesn't involve killing them. We would have preferred to allocate this when you overcome them, but it turned out to be very hard to work out when that had happened, so we implemented this by giving half the experience when you encounter them. If you kill them you get the other half. Thus we currently reward chasing a monster down the stairs just as much as stealthily avoiding it, or putting it to sleep, or any other way of non-lethally overcoming it.

In some cases, allowing them to flee down the stairs helps you win fights you might otherwise have lost. In other cases (e.g. uniques) you might really want to avoid them fleeing down the stairs, which leads to some quite interesting tactical decisions. Sure it is annoying if they get past and make it to the stairs, but having some stakes like this is what makes the tactical stuff fun (as well as adding to immersion etc).
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