Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 3, 2010, 17:30   #1
Lexander
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3
Lexander is on a distinguished road
Specific Questions from a Newbie

Well, I have been playing Angband here and there over the years (starting with Moria). But it has only kept my interest for short periods of time for one reason or another.

I also spent most of those years cheating with save files wondering why anybody would put up with character loss. But after reading the forums a few times I finally figured out that I was completely missing the point.

So, I rolled up mage after mage and struggled over and over to survive long enough only to eventually reach a new level and end up dead. After much pain I decided to try a Dwarf Paladin and found that I could finally actually play the game.

I very recently had the game that I am sure keeps people like me playing. I got to clvl 25, had a powerful main gauche at +9, +9, a bunch of useful arrows and generally was doing well. Of course eventually a Nexus Hound swapped my very high Strength for my not so high Dexterity and I dropped from 3 blows to 1 blow. I had a Westernese Broad Sword that was good enough but I decided to see if I had consigned myself to death. Not very much later I had died. I admit I was probably annoyed enough at the stat swapping that I didn't try that hard to survive.

However, that was a wonderful game and it has me coming back. But the game also raised a lot of questions that I am curious about, some general, some specific:

Specific:

One, how does one get Free Action? I saw a couple of rings available in the store but nothing dropped.

Two, what is the best way to deal with Nexus Hounds for a melee?

Three, playing 3.0.9b what resistances do you need by what level to not be insane?

Four, what are the most common macros you use or see people use?

General:

One, how do you deal with the problem of trying to go lower while lacking the resistances to really go lower?

Two, at what level do you start getting stat potions and how long does it take to get enough of them?

Three, how do divers stay alive, and how long do explorers wait at a given level until they feels safe to move down?

Anyhow, I appreciate reading all the forums. I have gotten a much better sense for the game over time, and each time I dive into the dungeon I find it that much easier. (Of course I say this and in about 1 in 5 games I end up dead fighting in town at lvl 1 or dead to a Radiation Eye because I was stupid).

- Lex
Lexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 17:44   #2
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
One, how does one get Free Action? I saw a couple of rings available in the store but nothing dropped.
You can find Gloves or Boots of Free Action, the aforementioned Rings (which should be cheap enough to buy once you've made a few dungeon trips), several different weapons (including Westernesse and Defender), and lots of artifacts, to name a few possible sources.

Quote:
Two, what is the best way to deal with Nexus Hounds for a melee?
Avoid them. The only reason you should ever fight Nexus hounds is if they are blocking your way to something really valuable (I'm talking known useful artifact here). Even then, you're probably better off giving up on the valuable item. The risk of a bad stat swap is too high otherwise, and as you noted, it can basically ruin your character.

Though, if you find Boots of Stability, they give resistance to nexus, so at that point you can fight them with impunity.

Quote:
Three, playing 3.0.9b what resistances do you need by what level to not be insane?
Managing resistances is largely a matter of picking your battles. That said, until you get a better idea of what monsters can do to you, it's recommended that you try to have free action by 1000' (dungeon level 20) and the basic four resistances (fire, acid, cold, electricity) not long thereafter. Poison resist starts becoming important about 20 levels after that, though if you can recognize and avoid drolems and Ancient Multi-Hued Dragons then you don't really need it so much.

Quote:
Four, what are the most common macros you use or see people use?
Personally, my keymaps* are almost all just spell hotkeys. I tend to bind !, @, #, and $ to different detection and attack spells; if I need more, Q and Z are readily available. F is usually bound to a light-room spell (when still using a fueled light source, you can hit \ to not invoke the keymap). Oftentimes I'll have a keymap for "target nearest enemy and fire", too. I have the "use nearest target by default" option set, so that keymap looks something like *1f1.

* Keymaps should be preferred to macros. Macros can be invoked at any time; they overwrite the original use of the key you bind them to. Pressing a macro at the wrong time can do weird things, therefore, and if you bind a macro to the wrong key you can find it difficult to fix. Keymaps are only valid when the game is waiting for your next action; this makes them much safer, though a bit less flexible.

Quote:
One, how do you deal with the problem of trying to go lower while lacking the resistances to really go lower?
Pick your fights. You shouldn't be fighting anywhere close to every enemy you see. Going lower means better items will drop from the enemies you can fight, and also means the stuff just lying around on the floor will be better. Learning to dive safely is an important skill.

Quote:
Two, at what level do you start getting stat potions and how long does it take to get enough of them?
Stat potions are native to dungeon level 30 (1500'), so that's when they'll start showing up. Generally the 1600'-1800' area is known as "stat-gain depth", but personally I don't bother hanging around there since aside from stat potions there's nothing of interest. My stat gain tends to "finish" a bit before I hit 3000'.

Quote:
Three, how do divers stay alive, and how long do explorers wait at a given level until they feels safe to move down?
Divers stay alive through knowing what's around them and avoiding what they can't deal with. Don't be afraid to run. I don't generally play an "exploring" style, so I can't comment on it.

Incidentally, I recommend upgrading to 3.12. The main reason for this is that Identify effects in 3.12 will tell you all of the effects of your gear; I don't think this is true in 3.09 (in which you need a scroll of *Identify* to reveal the full capabilities of an item).
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 18:31   #3
will_asher
DaJAngband Maintainer
 
will_asher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,124
Donated: $10
will_asher is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
I very recently had the game that I am sure keeps people like me playing. I got to clvl 25, had a powerful main gauche at +9, +9, a bunch of useful arrows and generally was doing well. Of course eventually a Nexus Hound swapped my very high Strength for my not so high Dexterity and I dropped from 3 blows to 1 blow. I had a Westernese Broad Sword that was good enough but I decided to see if I had consigned myself to death. Not very much later I had died. I admit I was probably annoyed enough at the stat swapping that I didn't try that hard to survive.
However, that was a wonderful game and it has me coming back.
For some types of people, that's the type of game that will make them want to quit because of the annoying death. You've already shown roguelike resilience!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
One, how does one get Free Action? I saw a couple of rings available in the store but nothing dropped.
gloves or boots of free action, rings of free action, defender or westernese weapons. Lots of things have free action, normally I find my first FA item between dL15-20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
Two, what is the best way to deal with Nexus Hounds for a melee?
If you don't have resistance, avoid them like the plague. If you do have resistance, they're no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
Three, playing 3.0.9b what resistances do you need by what level to not be insane?
need free action at dL20
probably see invisible soon after, but that's not quite as important (especially for priests and paladins who have cheap detect evil).
basic 4 (fire,cold,acid,elec) by about dL35
poison resist by about dL40
You'll want blindness and confusion resistance probably around dL45-50, but you can go without them for awhile if you know which monsters to avoid (which is true for anything but free action and see invisible).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
One, how do you deal with the problem of trying to go lower while lacking the resistances to really go lower?
detect often and learn which monsters to avoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post
Three, how do divers stay alive, and how long do explorers wait at a given level until they feels safe to move down?
Personally, I play a mixture of diving and exploring (leaning more toward exploring).
Once I get at least three ?WoR, I go to about dL12 until I have high enough level to get the really important early spells and/or until I have a halfway decent weapon/bow if I'm a combat class. This usually doesn't take long at all.
Then I quickly go to about dL18-19 until I find free action and hopefully a couple other helpful magic items.
Then I head for stat gain depth (of course, the majority of the time, I don't make it that far..)
note: I'm describing my play habits for DaJAngband because I haven't played vanilla in awhile and would probably play it mostly the same way. Some details will be different in V, but I'm just giving an example since you asked about how explorers decide when to move down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon
Don't be afraid to run.
This may be reworded as "Don't be afraid to be afraid" and is generally good advice for explorers and divers alike. (Although obviously, the faster you go down, the more you'll be avoiding monsters.)
__________________
Will_Asher
aka LibraryAdventurer

My old variant DaJAngband:
http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home (defunct and so old it's forked from Angband 3.1.0 -I think- but it's probably playable...)
will_asher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 19:04   #4
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
need free action at dL20
probably see invisible soon after, but that's not quite as important (especially for priests and paladins who have cheap detect evil).
Not only cheap detect evil, but also a spell that gives temporary see invisible. Though in my experience that's too expensive/hard to cast for paladins; by the time it becomes reliable it's no longer useful.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 19:19   #5
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,025
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander View Post

Three, how do divers stay alive, and how long do explorers wait at a given level until they feels safe to move down?
Looks like people have covered most things, so I'll just quickly comment on this. The longer you remain on a level the more dangerous it is. That is because randomly spawned monsters (monsters that are not there when the level begins, but are created while you are on the level) are, on average, more dangerous than the monsters that the level starts with.

I'm not sure this is what you meant by 'waiting at a given level' but it's important to note. If you know what's ahead of you in the dungeon (through detection) it's much safer to heal while moving rather than resting. Minimize your time on any given level.

Staying alive while diving involves lots of stealth (dwarf paladins will have none) and lots of monster knowledge. If you want to try a diving character, a kobold/hobbit rogue is probably the best you ca do.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 19:44   #6
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Staying alive while diving involves lots of stealth (dwarf paladins will have none) and lots of monster knowledge. If you want to try a diving character, a kobold/hobbit rogue is probably the best you ca do.
I read this over and over, so it must be relevant to most people, but I kind of disagree. Stealth slows down the process of waking monsters that are asleep, nothing more. The faster you go, the less time they have to notice you, so the less you need stealth.

There is still the question of waking up monsters as you try to sneak past, so stealth is important, but if you have the mana for portal or teleport self you just leave the area if something too tough wakes up.

I'd happily trade stealth for melee damage with a melee char, or for spellstat with a casting char.

I should point out that another reason may be an answer to a question in another thread. If lack of stealth causes me to lose a char at DL 15 because I don't have a suitable source of teleportation, it doesn't bother me to start another char.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2010, 20:17   #7
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
I have to agree with Eddie here. I played a half-troll paladin (read: lousy stealth) and had no trouble diving very quickly (a bit under 10k player turns to dungeon level 20, I think). Granted that he was such a beast in melee he was actually able to take on many of the enemies he encountered en route. The dwarf priest I'm playing now has marginally better stealth but must be much more cautious because he's nowhere near as melee-capable.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 01:08   #8
Roch
Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 103
Roch is on a distinguished road
What is the value of stealth? I don't know if that's been covered yet in a thread (probably has), but I find it a very interesting question (especially in the competition/fast-diving context). Assuming no speed items and a desire to collect at least a few items from the floor of each level, I think stealth helps me avoid fights (especially those that I could not possibly win). Philosophically, it sounds a lot like "the question of waking up monsters as you try to sneak past, so stealth is important." I think this is right, and with high stealth I've been able to pass frightening opponents to collect nearby loot. If I dive fast, high stealth usually feels like a requirement. No?
Roch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 01:12   #9
fyonn
Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 217
fyonn is on a distinguished road
as many much better angband players here have said. feel free to run away. my current level 48 dwarf priest has tried to take on gabriel twice and azriel 3 times and had to run on all occasions as I'm just not tough enough. I've got azriel down by 4 stars but by then I've had to 'heal' a few times and 'healing' once or twice and I'm running rapidly short on mana to keep it up. perhaps once I've got a source of resnether it'll be a bit easier, but we'll see.

I think for me, much of my early game was played with the somewhat implicit understanding that I should clear out each level before moving on, but once I worked out that i can leave great swathes of the dungeon un-looked at, my game improved a fair bit I think. Also, there are some monsters that you just don't need to fight. nexus hounds you mentioned, frankly any hounds once you've got a source of banishment I tend to think, but time and chaos hounds are also a pain. Jelly pits? who needs em? just ignore. they're a source of losing all your armour.

know when to just bail. I thought I was doing quite well against saruman recently when he summoned half a dozen wyrms, none of which my guy had ever seen before. <pop> outta there. I then went back and picked them off one by one, but where I was at the time, I was just too prone to about 6 breath attacks all coming in at once.

try to make sure you've always got some methods of escape and healing. preferably ones you can always use (like a staff of teleport). I've been carrying between 2 and 7 of these for the last 40 levels and not used them, but you never know...

as for macro's? the only one I ever really use is the rest macro (\e\e\eR*\n I think) bound to tab. everything else I type. I do though, tend to mark my books with numbers incase I lose some. I even play on a laptop and have to go to the number bar to do diagonals! (obviously I tend to walk in verticals or horizontals mostly to use the cursors but if I'm fighting or working through checkerboard pits I'm not quite used to using the 1,3,7,9 keys

dave
fyonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2010, 01:14   #10
fyonn
Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 217
fyonn is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
I'd happily trade stealth for melee damage with a melee char, or for spellstat with a casting char.
does that mean that you happily use aggravating equipment? my guy's currently got gothmog (keeps as a swap for dragons) and umbar (sitting at home). I feel a little guilty about the latter as it's a real big hitter for damage but I do like the ability to pick my fights...

dave
fyonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie observations and questions Arrkhal Vanilla 12 March 20, 2010 00:28
Some newbie questions Elysium Vanilla 7 March 12, 2010 04:51
newbie questions Shaman Vanilla 8 June 3, 2009 04:28
More newbie mage questions fmackenz Vanilla 5 October 2, 2008 12:42
More newbie questions - ~2000' Macavenger Vanilla 17 March 5, 2008 12:55


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.