Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 27, 2019, 05:25   #11
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,776
Derakon is on a distinguished road
For 1, because effects are currently binary it's reasonably clear that "more confused" or "more berserk" just means the effect lasts longer. It might not be super-obvious the first time you see the message but you'll figure it out soon enough. Of course, adding new non-binary statuses will change that, so the messages might need to be tweaked. I don't think removing them outright is a good idea though; the spell/item had some effect (of extending the duration), and that bears noting.

For 2, my opinion on this has always been that if you re-up a status while already under its effect, the duration should be re-set to the max of its current duration or the duration achieved by the spell/item you used, whichever is more. I don't like the "add 5 turns" thing because it puts the player in the position of having to guess whether they're better off waiting for the spell to expire before recasting it. I also don't like indefinitely stacking durations. While it must be said that the available buffs that can be stacked indefinitely are all pretty weak, I don't think it's great that the player has an incentive to mindlessly spam those effects in town.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2019, 11:15   #12
takkaria
Veteran
 
takkaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,913
Donated: $40
takkaria is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
For 2, my opinion on this has always been that if you re-up a status while already under its effect, the duration should be re-set to the max of its current duration or the duration achieved by the spell/item you used, whichever is more. I don't like the "add 5 turns" thing because it puts the player in the position of having to guess whether they're better off waiting for the spell to expire before recasting it. I also don't like indefinitely stacking durations. While it must be said that the available buffs that can be stacked indefinitely are all pretty weak, I don't think it's great that the player has an incentive to mindlessly spam those effects in town.
Derakon, can you stop making thought-through and sensible suggestions all the time? It makes the rest of us feel bad
__________________
takkaria whispers something about options. -more-
takkaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2019, 03:10   #13
Sparrow the Dunadan
Apprentice
 
Sparrow the Dunadan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Olympia, WA
Age: 40
Posts: 90
Sparrow the Dunadan is on a distinguished road
Isn't poison already not binary though? I mean I'm getting messages when fighting spiders that I'm getting more poisoned. Am I just reading wrong, or is that a glitch/bug? (RE: 4.1.3)
Sparrow the Dunadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2019, 04:32   #14
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,588
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow the Dunadan View Post
Isn't poison already not binary though? I mean I'm getting messages when fighting spiders that I'm getting more poisoned. Am I just reading wrong, or is that a glitch/bug? (RE: 4.1.3)
The way poisoning works is that there is a poison counter, which is zero if you are not poisoned and positive if you are. Getting hit by a poison attack adds to your poison counter. If you are poisoned (ie positive poison counter), you lose 1HP per turn, regardless of how high the actual poison counter value is - this is what I meant by the effect being binary. The poison counter is also reduced (by an amount dependent on your CON) each turn.

So being "more poisoned" means it will take you longer to recover, not that you are taking more damage per turn. Making poisoning less binary would probably mean that you would lose more HP per turn for higher counter values, and potentially other effects.

I hope that's clear. This also bears on my question 1 from a few posts back - are these messages conveying accurate, or misleading, information?
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2019, 08:10   #15
Sparrow the Dunadan
Apprentice
 
Sparrow the Dunadan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Olympia, WA
Age: 40
Posts: 90
Sparrow the Dunadan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
The way poisoning works is that there is a poison counter, which is zero if you are not poisoned and positive if you are. Getting hit by a poison attack adds to your poison counter. If you are poisoned (ie positive poison counter), you lose 1HP per turn, regardless of how high the actual poison counter value is - this is what I meant by the effect being binary. The poison counter is also reduced (by an amount dependent on your CON) each turn.

So being "more poisoned" means it will take you longer to recover, not that you are taking more damage per turn. Making poisoning less binary would probably mean that you would lose more HP per turn for higher counter values, and potentially other effects.

I hope that's clear. This also bears on my question 1 from a few posts back - are these messages conveying accurate, or misleading, information?
Ah! Okay... so it works kind of like how zombie meat works in Minecraft, then.

I don't know? I mean, I don't understand a lot of the technical side of gaming, so it could be both? I mean once you explained, it made sense. But to those that don't bother to question, it could be viewed as misleading, due to the readers' lack of knowledge/understanding.

I mean I don't want to be treated as an imbecile or a raw N00b, but I do often need more personal educational explanations as tutorials and tech threads often contain verbage I'm not familiar with. (It's one of the top major reasons I've had a strong aversion to forums in general.)
Sparrow the Dunadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29, 2019, 16:28   #16
Voovus
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 82
Voovus is on a distinguished road
I seem to be going against the flow here, but just wanted to say that I'm skeptical about making status effects less binary.

For example, currently an early umber hulk is real terror, because of their own special confusion attack. They stand out. They get respect. They are formidable opponents without having the ability to instakill. I'd like to see more of these. But make confusion slowly build up over time, and umber hulks will just turn into an annoyance.

As another example, I find the current levels of wounds as probably the most boring of the status effects. I suspect that a rare (say, from shards only) but strong binary effect (say, losing 10% current hp/turn) would be more interesting.
Voovus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29, 2019, 16:58   #17
Estragon
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 9
Estragon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
This also bears on my question 1 from a few posts back - are these messages conveying accurate, or misleading, information?
Personally, I think both. Whilst the messages are accurate and concise, they are rather ambiguous for players new to the game, relying on players understanding the status effect mechanics. However, I'm not sure if there is a simple fix, without adding more clutter to the messages for veteran players.
Estragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29, 2019, 17:10   #18
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,776
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voovus View Post
I seem to be going against the flow here, but just wanted to say that I'm skeptical about making status effects less binary.
In my mind the main possibility produced by less-binary status effects is the ability to throw them around more frequently and in different, harder-to-avoid ways. A monster that slowed you by -10 just because you're in LOS of it wouldn't be reasonable, but one that slows you by -2 is a lot easier to contemplate. However, you'd still want monsters to be able to slow you by -10 in the same ways they currently do (by spells, mostly).

Confusion is one that I don't think really works well as a nonbinary effect, at least not in current Vanilla. But even if we did have less-vicious forms of confusion, they shouldn't apply to the Umber Hulk's melee. Its entire job is to introduce you to the problems inherent in getting chain-confused by a melee monster that you can't easily get away from. Making its confusion less bad would just lead to players learning bad habits that would get them killed later.

But actually, imagine if Grey Mushroom Patches could lightly confuse you if you got within 10 tiles of them. Not much to impact you seriously, especially given how sparse monsters are in the early game. Maybe you go the wrong way 20% of the time. That actually sounds kinda fun.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29, 2019, 18:42   #19
khearn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
khearn is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Khearn-
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. You are describing PosChengband.
Nope, I'm not being sarcastic. I've never heard of PosChengband, but I haven't heard of most recent variants.

For the messages, how about something like "You feel you'll be berserk even longer."?

Last edited by khearn; April 29, 2019 at 18:48.
khearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30, 2019, 02:09   #20
Grotug
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,133
Grotug is on a distinguished road
Would a -2 to speed be a cumulative effect so that every time you get hit by the spell your speed goes -2, -4, -6, -8 etc?
__________________
Detailed account of my Ironman win here.
Grotug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Composband 7.0.3 binary release Gwarl Variants 27 March 12, 2018 00:45
A novel solution to status effects Patashu Vanilla 34 October 22, 2017 16:22
Mucking around with confusion and monster status effects fizzix Vanilla 18 March 26, 2016 11:37
morale and status effects seraph Sil 3 February 3, 2016 00:24
Universal Binary? fyonn Vanilla 11 August 7, 2007 02:29


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.