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Old December 9, 2016, 11:28   #11
Estie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luneya View Post
Usually with stone to mud. I guess if tunneling were removed, warriors would have to carry those wands. IIRC, priests don't currently get a version of that spell, but we'd surely give them one if we were serious about eliminating tunneling.
The idea here is to remove all tunneling abilities, including spells, the main purpose of that being to prevent the player from changing terrain advantageously for fights ("ASC").
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Old December 11, 2016, 10:25   #12
Ancient Green
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
The idea here is to remove all tunneling abilities, including spells, the main purpose of that being to prevent the player from changing terrain advantageously for fights ("ASC").
The main reason why players feel the need to tunnel is to control monster summons because of the fact that being in view of multiple monsters means that the monsters can actions against the player character which include breathing ,casting spells and summoning more monsters. enough attack actions in a turn can bring a player character (half-troll warrior) from full hp to negative hp and instadeath is not a thing that is enjoyed in a game with permadeath. monsters bulky enough to summon a few monsters before dying do exist and the player character is required to fight two of them.

This means that the monster summoning needs to nerfed in some way before I support the removal of tunneling.

another result of removing tunneling is that the player has less money because of the inability to mine money ores. if that is a problem, it is easy fix it by increasing value of the other money drops.
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Old December 11, 2016, 14:35   #13
Estie
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Originally Posted by Ancient Green View Post
The main reason why players feel the need to tunnel is to control monster summons because of the fact that being in view of multiple monsters means that the monsters can actions against the player character which include breathing ,casting spells and summoning more monsters. enough attack actions in a turn can bring a player character (half-troll warrior) from full hp to negative hp and instadeath is not a thing that is enjoyed in a game with permadeath. monsters bulky enough to summon a few monsters before dying do exist and the player character is required to fight two of them.

This means that the monster summoning needs to nerfed in some way before I support the removal of tunneling.

another result of removing tunneling is that the player has less money because of the inability to mine money ores. if that is a problem, it is easy fix it by increasing value of the other money drops.
Digging ASCs is by no means required to fight summoners - it just makes it slightly easier. If digging got removed, a more impactful side effect would be that GVs could be reached quicker (assuming that the entrance was always placed accessibly); this would be a huge advantage compared to having to deal with an awake vault from spending many turns digging in the vicinity.

Also, the way you argue against my quote, the impression is that you are contradicting me - in my last post I was trying to clarify a perceived misunderstanding, not stating my opinion. For the record, and whatever its worth, I am very strongly against removal of digging.
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Old December 11, 2016, 16:24   #14
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I use ASCs to deal with any large group of enemies, e.g. maiar pits, many greater vaults, uniques and their escorts. The tactic isn't just for summons.
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