Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 17, 2019, 18:02   #231
takkaria
Veteran
 
takkaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,930
Donated: $40
takkaria is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jml34 View Post
@takkaria If you mean the accesses to s[2] and s[3] they can't be out of bounds (null-terminated string so these expressions are in bound when evaluated) -- I copied this from elsewhere in the code.
Hmm, if an inscription was just "!L" then s[0] == "!", s[1] == "L", s[2] == 0, and then s[3] is out of bounds, no? Where else in the code makes this assumption?

(I hate C)
__________________
takkaria whispers something about options. -more-
takkaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17, 2019, 19:25   #232
khearn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18
khearn is on a distinguished road
Yeah, uppercase sounds good, too.
khearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17, 2019, 21:00   #233
jml34
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
jml34 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Hmm, if an inscription was just "!L" then s[0] == "!", s[1] == "L", s[2] == 0
In that case " && '0'<=s[2] " fails so further && conditions are not evaluated, which is how out of bounds accesses are prevented (I also don't like lots of things about C but it still beats assembly code )

----
About @<cmd><letter> I just realized my plan would essentially make the inscriptions array a keymap (input letter-or-digit -> equipment slot), since we'd first assign working normal letters to the array (after inscriptions are processed) to guarantee nobody claims that letter. So we could rename this array keymap if we go that route.

About the UI, we have several possibilities:
1. Don't use uppercase letters inscribed by the user. This guarantees 26 free slots for pathological cases.
2. Let the user use uppercase inscriptions and
.2a. just do nothing if the user has somehow messed with all letters (an item is unreachable)
.2b. provide a few non-letter keys for those cases.
It's just that I don't see in what practical situation there'd be a 2a pathological case. "Assign the first free uppercase letter" should always work (going for an uppercase letter first to emphasize in the menu that a lowercase inventory slot was temporarily reassigned), unless the user inscribed all uppercase letters somewhere on purpose right?

EDIT in fact @Ee might be safer than @EE in case I'd release the shift key between the Es and end up eating something at slot e. It could be lowercase inscriptions are safer. Or I'd engrave both @EE and @Ee.

Last edited by jml34; July 17, 2019 at 21:20.
jml34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17, 2019, 22:10   #234
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,791
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
It seems to me that this entire thread has been sidelined into what should be in the "Development" portion for talk about coding specifics rather than the "Vanilla" portion, but maybe that's just me.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17, 2019, 22:21   #235
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,828
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Also thanks for all the helpful suggestions on a new name for Satisfy Hunger. My current thinking is to go with Derakon's idea of Remove Hunger, and change it to not reset food downward. This means it will not be a cure for fullness, which seems more in keeping with the philosophy of the changes. Also makes ,Purging and !Salt Water more useful
You got some positive feedback from the initial change to Satisfy Hunger specifically because it meant that players would no longer have to hoard Purging/Salt Water for the final fights to avoid getting healing-gorged. Reverting that part of the change is therefore likely to provoke complaints.

What if it set your percentage to MIN(90, current+50)? Or current+25 or whatever you think a reasonable number is.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18, 2019, 05:32   #236
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 7,731
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
You got some positive feedback from the initial change to Satisfy Hunger specifically because it meant that players would no longer have to hoard Purging/Salt Water for the final fights to avoid getting healing-gorged. Reverting that part of the change is therefore likely to provoke complaints.
You are very likely correct

Here are my reasons for going ahead with this anyway:
  1. The hunger meter means the player has a chance to plan their food intake before the final fights, which seems reasonable and the sort of integration of the hunger mechanic that I am aiming for
  2. Slowing through fullness sets in gradually - one healing potion will slow the player by a maximum of 1 - so it is a situation the player can respond to dynamically
  3. Only two classes of nine get Satisfy Hunger as a spell, so others choosing to rely on "hunger reduction" would need to devote a slot to it in any case
  4. I plan to introduce some more variety of food, so the player can have more control over their hunger level

While I'm aware that there are some people who wish hunger would just go away as a mechanic, I'm in general not in favor of extreme optimisation of aspects of the game to facilitate the equivalent of speedrunning; I think that's the player's job, not the maintainer's. There was a choice between actually removing hunger or making it more integrated within the game, and overall we came down on the side of integration. So I don't want to then do things that run counter to that, in the same way as I'm not going to introduce this
Code:
#####
#123#
#4>5#
#678#
#####
as a town layout
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18, 2019, 14:49   #237
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,828
Derakon is on a distinguished road
You forgot the little courtyard for the townspeople and Farmer Maggot to spawn in, which is of course separated from the rest of the town by a pile of rubble.

But anyway, fair enough. I'm not personally trying to persuade you to go one way or another, just making sure you're making as informed of decisions as possible. Which you are, as best I can tell.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18, 2019, 15:29   #238
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,019
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
This is a good summation. As for ideas for 3, how about if more powerful races had a lower level cap? Like, you topped out at level 40 for a high-elf and level 50 for a human, and everyone else was somewhere in-between? Newbies will die before the level cap becomes relevant. The biggest problem of course is that this limits spell access for full casters; a lot of the really class-defining spells would be unavailable to high-elves if we used the numbers I suggested. But both the level caps and the spell levels could be tweaked.
HPs would probably also be a problem. I think level limits make more sense if you add something like giants & give them insane hps/level. Quickband gives high elves the "Doom of Mandos" from clvl 27 which does bad stuff (not sure what, never played the high elf) but you could adapt Sil's danger mechanic where monsters are spawning at a higher depth or do something different.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18, 2019, 15:55   #239
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,828
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
HPs would probably also be a problem. I think level limits make more sense if you add something like giants & give them insane hps/level. Quickband gives high elves the "Doom of Mandos" from clvl 27 which does bad stuff (not sure what, never played the high elf) but you could adapt Sil's danger mechanic where monsters are spawning at a higher depth or do something different.
I'm pretty sure I've seen ladder wins with character levels lower than 40. At level 40 with max CON you get 40*12.5=500 HP from CON, which means you need 2.5 HP per level from your hit dice to be out of instadeath range from Morgoth. The worst hit die in the game is a halfling mage with a d7, which has an average roll of 4. I'm not saying it'd be a fun fight, but it should be doable.

But sure, there's plenty of other neat ways to penalize powerful races in the lategame. You could give one race a time limit of 1 million game turns (~= 100k normal-speed turns, plenty to win with), for example. There might also be some way to tweak the experience-received-per-enemy formula such that as a particular race dives deeper they have to get more and more of their experience from "novel" kills (where the monster type hasn't been killed before).
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18, 2019, 16:40   #240
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,791
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I'm pretty sure I've seen ladder wins with character levels lower than 40. At level 40 with max CON you get 40*12.5=500 HP from CON, which means you need 2.5 HP per level from your hit dice to be out of instadeath range from Morgoth. The worst hit die in the game is a halfling mage with a d7, which has an average roll of 4. I'm not saying it'd be a fun fight, but it should be doable.
As in PowerWyrm's epic win of the Hobbit comp with The One Ring, Sting, and a Mithril ChainMail to start, with the win condition being the lowest experience. However, I think ladder wins are less comparable across versions, especially as the newest rendition of the end-game is appreciably more difficult to win - in a good way.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First release Quirk Sil 18 November 14, 2017 22:45
3.4.0 Release Candidate is available fizzix Vanilla 111 July 5, 2012 12:39
3.2 release candidate is upon us! d_m Vanilla 147 January 19, 2011 10:10
Release HellBand 0.8.7 konijn_ Variants 4 December 27, 2009 04:14
reactions to changes in new V release will_asher Vanilla 50 April 9, 2008 18:47


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.