Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > AAR

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 21, 2018, 01:26   #1
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
The adventures of Experiment the crash test dummy

Experiment the crash test dummy is using a modified blows table. It's hackish & ugly but good enough to see what happens. All numbers were changed through the adj_str & adj_dex values (e.g. the blows table itself is unchanged). I've given my formally stat optimized character the blows of a standard roller while trying to hold the old max. & minimum stat points.

The adventure starts with crash dummy walking into a store & buying the 2nd best weapon we can afford. It is a morning star doing 10.2 damage & 1 blow. Looking at the whip it's at 1.1 blow & the king of all weapons (the katana) is out of our price range.

Code:
  [Angband 4.1.2 Character Dump]

 Name   Experiment I Age             16          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Crash-Dummy  Height        5'8"   STR:     17  +0  +3  +0  18/20
 Class  Warrior      Weight    10st 0lb   INT:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 Title  Rookie       Turns used:          WIS:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 HP     19/19        Game           170   DEX:     18  +0  +2  +0  18/20
 SP     0/0          Standard        16   CON:     10  +0  +2  +0     12
                     Resting          0

 Level                  1    Armor        [0,+2]    Saving Throw     20%
 Cur Exp                0                           Stealth          Bad
 Max Exp                0    Melee        2d6,+3    Disarm - phys.   29%
 Adv Exp               10    To-hit        24,+4    Disarm - magic   22%
                             Blows      1.0/turn    Magic Devices     19
 Gold                 217                           Searching        11%
 Burden           18.0 lb    Shoot to-dam     +0    Infravision     0 ft
 Overweight     -125.9 lb    To-hit        19,+4    Speed         Normal
 Max Depth           Town    Shots        0/turn

 You are the property of the corporation. You have a square shaped
 head.



rAcid:............. Nexus:.............
rElec:............. Nethr:.............
rFire:............. Chaos:.............
rCold:............. Disen:.............
rPois:............. pFear:.............
rLite:............. pBlnd:.............
rDark:............. pConf:.............
Sound:............. pStun:.............
Shard:............. HLife:.............

Regen:............. Stea.:.............
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............. Infra:.............
FrAct:............. Tunn.:.............
Feath:............. Speed:.............
S.Dig:............. Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............
Aggrv:............. Light:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Morning Star (2d6) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +4 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +4 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 10.2.
     
f) a Wooden Torch (5000 turns)
     An inheritance from your family
     
     Radius 1 light.
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) a Ration of Food




  [Character Quiver]



[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.


  [Options]

  [User interface]

Use the roguelike command keyset             : no  (rogue_like_commands)
Use sound                                    : no  (use_sound)
Show damage player deals to monsters         : no  (show_damage)
Use old target by default                    : no  (use_old_target)
Always pickup items                          : no  (pickup_always)
Always pickup items matching inventory       : yes (pickup_inven)
Show flavors in object descriptions          : no  (show_flavors)
Highlight target with cursor                 : yes (show_target)
Highlight player with cursor between turns   : no  (highlight_player)
Disturb whenever viewable monster moves      : yes (disturb_near)
Show walls as solid blocks                   : no  (solid_walls)
Show walls with shaded background            : no  (hybrid_walls)
Color: Illuminate torchlight in yellow       : no  (view_yellow_light)
Color: Shimmer multi-colored things          : no  (animate_flicker)
Center map continuously                      : no  (center_player)
Color: Show unique monsters in purple        : no  (purple_uniques)
Automatically clear '-more-' prompts         : no  (auto_more)
Color: Player color indicates % hit points   : yes (hp_changes_color)
Allow mouse clicks to move the player        : yes (mouse_movement)
Notify on object recharge                    : no  (notify_recharge)
Show effective speed as multiplier           : no  (effective_speed)

  [Birth]

Generate a new, random artifact set          : no  (birth_randarts)
Generate connected stairs                    : yes (birth_connect_stairs)
Force player descent (never make up stairs)  : no  (birth_force_descend)
Word of Recall has no effect                 : no  (birth_no_recall)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (birth_no_artifacts)
Stack objects on the floor                   : yes (birth_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (birth_lose_arts)
Show level feelings                          : yes (birth_feelings)
Increase gold drops but disable selling      : yes (birth_no_selling)
Start with a kit of useful gear              : no  (birth_start_kit)
Monsters learn from their mistakes           : no  (birth_ai_learn)
Know all runes on birth                      : no  (birth_know_runes)
Know all flavors on birth                    : no  (birth_know_flavors)
Persistent levels (experimental)             : no  (birth_levels_persist)
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 01:46   #2
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
I almost go to an accident with a floating eye before reading ?deep descent without a ?recall yet. I'm going to walk out. Early balance isn't even close to good. I'm well under powered & having an easy time. Find some good stuff & bullroarer drops Narthanc. It is great but no longer insanely good.

Code:
[Angband 4.1.2 Character Dump]

 Name   Experiment I Age             16          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Crash-Dummy  Height        5'8"   STR:     17  +0  +3  +0  18/20
 Class  Warrior      Weight    10st 0lb   INT:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 Title  Soldier      Turns used:          WIS:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 HP     52/96        Game         20104   DEX:     18  +0  +2  +0  18/20
 SP     0/0          Standard      2035   CON:     10  +0  +2  +0     12
                     Resting         71

 Level                  9    Armor      [10,+25]    Saving Throw     28%
 Cur Exp              287                           Stealth          Bad
 Max Exp              287    Melee       2d4,+15    Disarm - phys.   40%
 Adv Exp              380    To-hit       36,+13    Disarm - magic   29%
                             Blows      1.1/turn    Magic Devices     24
 Gold                1507                           Searching        40%
 Burden           98.3 lb    Shoot to-dam     +0    Infravision     0 ft
 Overweight      -45.6 lb    To-hit        31,+4    Speed         Normal
 Max Depth      300' (L6)    Shots        0/turn

 You are the property of the corporation. You have a square shaped
 head.



rAcid:..+.........! Nexus:?............
rElec:?............ Nethr:?............
rFire:?............ Chaos:?............
rCold:?............ Disen:?............
rPois:?............ pFear:?............
rLite:?............ pBlnd:?............
rDark:?............ pConf:?............
Sound:?............ pStun:?............
Shard:?............ HLife:?............

Regen:............. Stea.:.............
  ESP:?............ Sear.:...+.........
Invis:?............ Infra:.............
FrAct:?............ Tunn.:.............
Feath:............. Speed:.............
S.Dig:............. Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:?............ Might:.............
Aggrv:............. Light:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) the Dagger 'Narthanc' (2d4) (+9,+12) [+10] {@A2 !!, ??}
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     
     When activated, it creates a fire bolt with damage 9d8.
     Takes 9 to 16 turns to recharge.
     Your chance of success is 89.7%
     
     Combat info:
     1.1 blows/round.
     With +3 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
     Average damage/round: 23.7.
     
c) a Ring of Acid [+7] (charging) {@A1 !!}
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
     Provides resistance to acid.
     
d) a Ring of Searching <+4>
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
     +4 searching skill.
     
f) a Wooden Torch (2955 turns)
     An inheritance from your family
     
     Radius 1 light.
     
g) Soft Leather Armour [8,+6]
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
j) a Hard Leather Cap [2,+0]
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) 5 Rations of Food
b) 4 Slime Molds
c) 2 Flasks of oil
d) a Potion of Cure Light Wounds {@q1}
e) 3 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds {@q2}
f) a Potion of Speed
g) 4 Potions of Slowness
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
h) 9 Scrolls of Phase Door {@r4}
i) a Wand of Wonder (19 charges)
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     
j) a Staff of Cure Light Wounds (9 charges)
k) a Ring of Feather Falling
     Bought from a store
     
     Feather Falling.  
     
l) 3 Wooden Torches (5000 turns)
     Radius 1 light.
     
m) a Scimitar of Slay Dragon (4d2) (+9,+5)
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     Slays dragons.
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +4 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +4 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 27.2 vs. dragons, and 14.6 vs. others.
     
n) a Broad Axe (2d6) (+4,+2) {??}
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +5 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +5 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 12.5.
     
o) a Morning Star (2d6) (+0,+0)
     Bought from a store
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +4 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +4 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 10.3.
     




  [Character Quiver]

0) 22 Rounded Pebbles (1d2) (+0,+0)


[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
       247     50'  Reached level 2
       672     50'  Reached level 3
       774    300'  -- Note: ?deep descent
       786    300'  Reached level 4
       999    300'  Reached level 5
      1104    300'  Reached level 6
      1244    300'  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      1338    300'  Reached level 7
      1488    300'  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      1735    250'  Reached level 8
      2025    250'  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
      2025    250'  Reached level 9
      2027    250'  Found the Dagger 'Narthanc'


  [Options]

  [User interface]

Use the roguelike command keyset             : no  (rogue_like_commands)
Use sound                                    : no  (use_sound)
Show damage player deals to monsters         : no  (show_damage)
Use old target by default                    : no  (use_old_target)
Always pickup items                          : no  (pickup_always)
Always pickup items matching inventory       : yes (pickup_inven)
Show flavors in object descriptions          : no  (show_flavors)
Highlight target with cursor                 : yes (show_target)
Highlight player with cursor between turns   : no  (highlight_player)
Disturb whenever viewable monster moves      : yes (disturb_near)
Show walls as solid blocks                   : no  (solid_walls)
Show walls with shaded background            : no  (hybrid_walls)
Color: Illuminate torchlight in yellow       : no  (view_yellow_light)
Color: Shimmer multi-colored things          : no  (animate_flicker)
Center map continuously                      : no  (center_player)
Color: Show unique monsters in purple        : no  (purple_uniques)
Automatically clear '-more-' prompts         : no  (auto_more)
Color: Player color indicates % hit points   : yes (hp_changes_color)
Allow mouse clicks to move the player        : yes (mouse_movement)
Notify on object recharge                    : no  (notify_recharge)
Show effective speed as multiplier           : no  (effective_speed)

  [Birth]

Generate a new, random artifact set          : no  (birth_randarts)
Generate connected stairs                    : yes (birth_connect_stairs)
Force player descent (never make up stairs)  : no  (birth_force_descend)
Word of Recall has no effect                 : no  (birth_no_recall)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (birth_no_artifacts)
Stack objects on the floor                   : yes (birth_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (birth_lose_arts)
Show level feelings                          : yes (birth_feelings)
Increase gold drops but disable selling      : yes (birth_no_selling)
Start with a kit of useful gear              : no  (birth_start_kit)
Monsters learn from their mistakes           : no  (birth_ai_learn)
Know all runes on birth                      : no  (birth_know_runes)
Know all flavors on birth                    : no  (birth_know_flavors)
Persistent levels (experimental)             : no  (birth_levels_persist)
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 01:51   #3
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,470
Derakon is on a distinguished road
So, you made it so that everyone gets ~1 blow/round in the early game? Is that the gist of it?

That could get painful in the 500-1500' range for melee-oriented characters...
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 02:04   #4
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
So, you made it so that everyone gets ~1 blow/round in the early game? Is that the gist of it?

That could get painful in the 500-1500' range for melee-oriented characters...
The gist of it is I try something & see what it does. I actually play standard rollers from time to time, I'm well aware of how frustrating they can be. What I want to know is whether what I see when I look at the numbers translates to what I think it does.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 02:12   #5
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Besides a quick look with a dwarf & half-troll warrior. The half-troll is at 2 dagger blows & the dwarf at 1.3. e.g. the half-troll is still preferencing the dagger though the gap is shrunk.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 03:11   #6
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Derakon helpfully recommends just skipping 500'-1500' but we decide to kill Gorbag & Boldor along. We see some weak branded weapons along the way, they actually look a bit more like they make some sense.

Look the thing is I'm not saying that 1 starting blow is better for the warrior. I'm saying I suspect a lot of this funiness is occuring because a gazillion starting blows was never intended. A game was designed. People started scumming the start. The scumming was automated in. Then a lot of people went off and pretended balance wasn't dramatically changed because "you could just start scum for it anyway". If you look through the design history you see this pattern of scuming being automated into the game to prevent scumming. Shrug. As far as I'm concerned you may as well completely redo blows as they were built for a game using a completely different set of numbers.

Code:
 [Angband 4.1.2 Character Dump]

 Name   Experiment I Age             16          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Crash-Dummy  Height        5'8"   STR:     17  +0  +3  +0  18/20
 Class  Warrior      Weight    10st 0lb   INT:     10  +0  -2  +2     10
 Title  Swashbuckler Turns used:          WIS:     10  +0  -2  +0      8
 HP     207/219      Game        131961   DEX:     18  +0  +2  +0  18/20
 SP     0/0          Standard     13180   CON:     10  +0  +2  +0     12
                     Resting        270

 Level                 18    Armor      [24,+51]    Saving Throw     37%
 Cur Exp             3322                           Stealth         Poor
 Max Exp             3322    Melee       2d4,+15    Disarm - phys.   55%
 Adv Exp             3600    To-hit       50,+13    Disarm - magic   39%
                             Blows      1.1/turn    Magic Devices     31
 Gold                1766                           Searching        31%
 Burden          143.8 lb    Shoot to-dam     +5    Infravision     0 ft
 Overweight        0.1 lb    To-hit        45,+7    Speed         Normal
 Max Depth    1050' (L21)    Shots        1/turn

 You are the property of the corporation. You have a square shaped
 head.



rAcid:..+.+........ Nexus:.............
rElec:........+.... Nethr:.............
rFire:+............ Chaos:.............
rCold:............. Disen:.............
rPois:............. pFear:.............
rLite:............. pBlnd:.............
rDark:............. pConf:.............
Sound:............. pStun:.............
Shard:............. HLife:.............

Regen:............. Stea.:.......+.....
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............. Infra:.............
FrAct:............. Tunn.:.............
Feath:...........+. Speed:.............
S.Dig:............. Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............
Aggrv:............. Light:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) the Dagger 'Narthanc' (2d4) (+9,+12) [+10] {@A2 !!}
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     Branded with fire.
     Provides resistance to fire.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     
     When activated, it creates a fire bolt with damage 9d8.
     Takes 9 to 16 turns to recharge.
     Your chance of success is 90.9%
     
     Combat info:
     1.1 blows/round.
     With +3 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.3 blows
     Average damage/round: 35.6 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     and 23.7 vs. others.
     
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+3,+5)
     Found lying on the floor at 600 feet (level 12)
     
c) a Ring of Acid [+7] {@A1 !!}
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
     Provides resistance to acid.
     
d) a Ring of Protection [+14]
     Found lying on the floor at 500 feet (level 10)
     
e) an Amulet of Resist Acid
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 1000 feet (level 20)
     
     Provides resistance to acid.
     
f) a Lantern (11558 turns)
     Found lying on the floor at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 2 light.
     
g) Soft Leather Armour [8,+3]
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
h) a Cloak of Stealth [1,+4] <+2>
     Found lying on the floor at 450 feet (level 9)
     
     +2 stealth.
     
i) a Leather Shield of Resist Lightning [8,+3]
     Bought from a store
     
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     
j) a Metal Cap of Intelligence [3,+5] <+2>
     Found lying on the floor at 600 feet (level 12)
     
     +2 intelligence.
     Sustains intelligence.
     
l) a Pair of Iron Shod Boots of Slow Descent [4,+3]
     Found lying on the floor at 300 feet (level 6)
     
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Feather Falling.  
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) 5 Flasks of oil
b) 2 Potions of Cure Light Wounds {@q1}
c) 8 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds {@q2}
d) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {@q3}
e) 6 Potions of Neutralize Poison
f) 2 Potions of Speed
g) 3 Potions of Resist Heat
h) a Potion of Resist Poison
i) 4 Potions of True Seeing
j) 17 Scrolls of Phase Door {@r4}
k) 4 Scrolls of Word of Recall
l) a Rod of Curing
m) a Wand of Stinking Cloud (7 charges)
n) 2 Wands of Confuse Monster (11 charges)
o) 2 Wands of Light (15 charges)
p) a Wand of Wonder (8 charges)
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     
q) a Staff of Cure Light Wounds (7 charges)
r) a Staff of Teleportation (4 charges)
s) a Jet Ring (+0,-5) <+2> {??}
     Dropped by a master yeek at 1050 feet (level 21)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     +2 stealth.
     
t) a Pike of Slay Evil (2d5) (+4,+8)
     Dropped by Gorbag, the Orc Captain at 1000 feet (level 20)
     
     Slays evil creatures.
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +5 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +5 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 24.1 vs. evil creatures, and 17.8 vs.
     others.
     




  [Character Quiver]

0) 39 Rounded Pebbles (1d2) (+0,+0)
1) 40 Iron Shots (1d4) (+0,+0)
2) 15 Iron Shots (1d4) (+0,+0)


  [Home Inventory]

a) 7 Scrolls of Satisfy Hunger
b) a Ring of Feather Falling
     Bought from a store
     
     Feather Falling.  
     
c) a Scimitar of Slay Dragon (4d2) (+9,+5)
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 250 feet (level 5)
     
     Slays dragons.
     
     Combat info:
     1.0 blow/round.
     With +4 STR and +0 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +7 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +1 DEX you would attack a bit faster
     With +4 STR and +1 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 1.1 blows
     Average damage/round: 27.5 vs. dragons, and 14.7 vs. others.
     


[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
       247     50'  Reached level 2
       672     50'  Reached level 3
       774    300'  -- Note: ?deep descent
       786    300'  Reached level 4
       999    300'  Reached level 5
      1104    300'  Reached level 6
      1244    300'  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      1338    300'  Reached level 7
      1488    300'  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      1735    250'  Reached level 8
      2025    250'  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
      2025    250'  Reached level 9
      2027    250'  Found the Dagger 'Narthanc'
      3397    250'  Reached level 10
      5379    100'  Reached level 11
      9701    350'  Reached level 12
     11052    400'  Reached level 13
     11243    450'  Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
     11767    500'  Reached level 14
     12184    500'  Reached level 15
     12784    850'  Reached level 16
     12951   1000'  Reached level 17
     13069   1000'  Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
     13069   1000'  Reached level 18
     13121   1050'  Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks


  [Options]

  [User interface]

Use the roguelike command keyset             : no  (rogue_like_commands)
Use sound                                    : no  (use_sound)
Show damage player deals to monsters         : no  (show_damage)
Use old target by default                    : no  (use_old_target)
Always pickup items                          : no  (pickup_always)
Always pickup items matching inventory       : yes (pickup_inven)
Show flavors in object descriptions          : no  (show_flavors)
Highlight target with cursor                 : yes (show_target)
Highlight player with cursor between turns   : no  (highlight_player)
Disturb whenever viewable monster moves      : yes (disturb_near)
Show walls as solid blocks                   : no  (solid_walls)
Show walls with shaded background            : no  (hybrid_walls)
Color: Illuminate torchlight in yellow       : no  (view_yellow_light)
Color: Shimmer multi-colored things          : no  (animate_flicker)
Center map continuously                      : no  (center_player)
Color: Show unique monsters in purple        : no  (purple_uniques)
Automatically clear '-more-' prompts         : no  (auto_more)
Color: Player color indicates % hit points   : yes (hp_changes_color)
Allow mouse clicks to move the player        : yes (mouse_movement)
Notify on object recharge                    : no  (notify_recharge)
Show effective speed as multiplier           : no  (effective_speed)

  [Birth]

Generate a new, random artifact set          : no  (birth_randarts)
Generate connected stairs                    : yes (birth_connect_stairs)
Force player descent (never make up stairs)  : no  (birth_force_descend)
Word of Recall has no effect                 : no  (birth_no_recall)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (birth_no_artifacts)
Stack objects on the floor                   : yes (birth_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (birth_lose_arts)
Show level feelings                          : yes (birth_feelings)
Increase gold drops but disable selling      : yes (birth_no_selling)
Start with a kit of useful gear              : no  (birth_start_kit)
Monsters learn from their mistakes           : no  (birth_ai_learn)
Know all runes on birth                      : no  (birth_know_runes)
Know all flavors on birth                    : no  (birth_know_flavors)
Persistent levels (experimental)             : no  (birth_levels_persist)
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 03:26   #7
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,915
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
In 3.0, getting 3 or 4 blows with a dagger, then enchanting it as quickly as possible to (+7,+7) was standard practice. Thancs weren't as good (1/2 the melee bonuses makes for 18 less damage per turn, without a huge stack of enchantment scrolls.) And thancs in the early levels weren't that common.

One other issue: purchased stats didnt get better than 16/16/16. Additional pointa in a melee stat were very expensive.

It's not just a matter of getting a thanc easily now.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 04:36   #8
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Thanks Pete, a lot of people here were around longer then me, so it's nice to get some figures.

Here's the earliest character dump I can find for a low level warrior

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=74

He's hacked in the dump so I can't be sure but it shows a low level half-troll warrior with main-gauche & .... 1 blow.

Last edited by wobbly; July 21, 2018 at 04:52.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 06:11   #9
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,611
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Ok by 2.9 I'm seeing 3 blows rapier/trident and 4 blows dagger. So perhaps the warrior lost an extra blow in 3. on but somewhere between Moria and 2.9 it gained 2 or 3 in the early game. It's not surprising it's coasting at this stage.

Edit: ok I'll leave it here and think. Think I've seen about as much as this is worth.

Last edited by wobbly; July 21, 2018 at 06:20.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21, 2018, 06:45   #10
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,470
Derakon is on a distinguished road
To be clear, I wasn't trying to make a value judgement, just making a guess at how the game would play as a warrior with 1 blow/round pre-stat-gain.

As a kid playing 2.4 frog-knows, I had a High-Elf Ranger (of course...) that got an early Trident of Ulmo drop from a player ghost, somewhere in the 500' part of the game. I'm pretty sure I got multiple blows with it, despite having to rely on 2.4's primitive autoroller (or did it not even have that...?). Granted that Ulmo does give a DEX bonus and is (or was, anyway) remarkably light for a trident, that still suggests that multiple blows weren't too far out of reach even in the first versions of Angband.

Certainly the conventional wisdom on rec.games.roguelike.angband in the 2.9.x days (and possibly earlier) was to max STR/DEX and get a (1d6!) whip. We had long arguments about whether this made sense. Someone called a 1d4 dagger with a +15 damage bonus "a pie in the face of reality". Oangband combat was developed largely as a reaction to how nonsensical Vanilla combat was.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dummy question on k_info allocation lines konijn_ Development 3 March 12, 2018 21:04
dummy question: diff will_asher Development 14 September 19, 2010 05:12
Test-Id for armor Donald Jonker Vanilla 3 May 20, 2009 10:00
duh test post Garrie Idle chatter 3 March 30, 2008 00:31
VB formatting test Leon Marrick Idle chatter 13 April 30, 2007 19:26


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.