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Old January 27, 2016, 20:56   #51
krazyhades
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I'm not sure I agree that Angband is a roleplaying game in its game mechanics, despite the player having a character that progresses. The argument against it being an RPG is that it's a tactics game that focuses exclusively on risk/reward evaluation, resource management, and tactical combat. There is no explicit in-game recognition of player behavior and non-combat/strategy choices.

Can it be used to roleplay? Of course. But so can most any game, e.g. Monopoly or chess. There's definitely some argument as you say in favor of it being an RPG (e.g. the "story" behind the character's progression, or choices like collecting slime molds or not hurting sleeping monsters) but Vanilla at least has no recognition of this sort of thing (some variants for example use a virtue system, and I'm sure there are other more roleplay mechanics out there in the *bands).

So yes, it's a bit mixed and as you say some players can (and most probably have at least once) knowingly made sub-optimal decisions for roleplay reasons, but they aren't really supported by the game itself in a meaningful way.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to start an argument, as I see both sides of things. I'm just bored with the actual work I'm doing....
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Old January 27, 2016, 20:58   #52
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
I'm not sure I agree that Angband is a roleplaying game in its game mechanics, despite the player having a character that progresses.
"Having a character that progresses" is basically what "roleplaying elements" means in videogame terminology these days. It has nothing whatsoever to do with actual roleplay and everything to do with having little numbers that get bigger over the course of the game.

By that metric, Angband is a roleplaying game. By any reasonable metric it isn't, but unfortunately reasonable metrics aren't in use here.
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Old January 27, 2016, 22:16   #53
krazyhades
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
"Having a character that progresses" is basically what "roleplaying elements" means in videogame terminology these days. It has nothing whatsoever to do with actual roleplay and everything to do with having little numbers that get bigger over the course of the game.

By that metric, Angband is a roleplaying game. By any reasonable metric it isn't, but unfortunately reasonable metrics aren't in use here.
Yeah I get that, as I hope I made clear in my post. But since it doesn't even have, for example, dialog of any sort (c.f. say, the Diablo games), even if linear, I'm reluctant to categorize it as an RPG for the reasons I lay out above.

But I also don't use "roguelike" for games that don't play like Rogue, so I get that I'm in the minority compared with the general population on these points.
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Old January 29, 2016, 20:20   #54
Bowman
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Angband has dialog when someone points at you and says "DIE!" before cackling evilly about traps

On a slightly more serious note, I can definitely understand projecting some sort of personality into the game and being annoyed when things don't fit it,but at the same time, I like having the ainur enemies. It's certainly possible to replace them with something else having the same numbers, but if that's done at the cost of losing the pomp and presense of, say, Osse herald of Ulmo because he's now just Luxaphel the demoniac angel, are we really better off for it? Perhaps, perhaps not. Stylishness is obviously a subjective thing, but on the scale of "make this thing more interesting" to "I must burn this couch because this thing is so awesome", I think the current ainur are nearer to the top end than slimes or jellies, so I'd rather see those tweaked to be cool first.

Yeash, that was a lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing
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