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Old December 12, 2014, 19:47   #1
Egavactip
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Doing More With Breeds Explosively?

I'm curious about having some late game monsters that breed--if not explosively, let's say semi-explosively. Wouldn't it be interesting, for example, to have an "Agent Smith" sort of demon? It wouldn't have to be the most powerful demon around, but the sucker clones itself...
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Old December 12, 2014, 20:53   #2
emulord
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Wall monsters can be pretty intense in Zangband.
Replicating gun turrets in Steamband too.

This is a pretty good idea. Bringing back old effects for the late game in general is a fresh idea. (like Shrieking Morgoth suggestion)

Summoning acts like explosive breeding, but can only happen in LOS. Nerfing Anti-summon-corridors by bringing back breeders! Probably a vortex, elemental (or wall), or ghost would make the most flavor sense. Dreads that breed explosively :O
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Old December 12, 2014, 21:39   #3
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egavactip View Post
I'm curious about having some late game monsters that breed--if not explosively, let's say semi-explosively. Wouldn't it be interesting, for example, to have an "Agent Smith" sort of demon? It wouldn't have to be the most powerful demon around, but the sucker clones itself...
Right now explosive breeding is essentially a check on whether you have crowd control or not. If you don't, then you're going to be in trouble. However, even then, ever since the change to fractional blows, even without crowd control you can usually clear out a breeding infestation. Nevertheless, breeding hummerhorns are still deadly. And breeding fireflies are too if there are other monsters in the room.

Personally, I don't find breeding to be all that interesting of the mechanic. And while having a passwall or eatwall breeder for the late game seems like it might be interesting, in reality it'll probably be super annoying, and might even start causing things like game lag if enough of the critters get produced.

We could also consider stuff like monster spawners as something like a half measure. Although I get leery about stuff like this because I know that players will choose a boring way to play if it gives results, and farming spawners is both boring and will give good results.
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Old December 12, 2014, 23:33   #4
Derakon
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
We could also consider stuff like monster spawners as something like a half measure. Although I get leery about stuff like this because I know that players will choose a boring way to play if it gives results, and farming spawners is both boring and will give good results.
Have the spawned monsters be specific to the spawner -- and whatever they are, they're written to give 0 experience and no items. You only get experience/items from destroying the spawner. Problem solved.
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Old December 13, 2014, 00:10   #5
Carnivean
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Have the spawned monsters be specific to the spawner -- and whatever they are, they're written to give 0 experience and no items. You only get experience/items from destroying the spawner. Problem solved.
Vampires in some forms have charmed followers. Vampires could summon thralls (older/stronger = more?) to mob @.
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Old December 15, 2014, 12:30   #6
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Greater wall monsters are insane. I added them in PWMAngband and they can easily kill a high level character.
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Old January 5, 2015, 02:26   #7
Sose
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My "favourite" breeder is from TomeNET.. Though it might be from somewhere else originally. Unmaker, not detected by ESP, breeds, eats walls, drains stats in melee, breathes chaos. Oh and has base immunity and a nice set of resists.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/mikaelh/tomenet...onster.php?815
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Old January 5, 2015, 03:38   #8
wobbly
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I generally find breeders more annoying then interesting. My problem is 2 situations:

1. you can clear them just faster then they breed & there's something worthwhile in the room.

This is just tedious. Eventually your going to win but it's going to be slow, repetitive play.

2. You can't clear them & they can't kill you.

So you've got a stalemate where your stuck surrounded unless you can teleport out. I guess the extreme case of this is an effective loss, but most cases are going to be borderline - "If I just plug away at this forever, maybe I'm not dead..."
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Old January 5, 2015, 09:03   #9
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I guess the problem comes with the fact that you can change dungeon levels pretty easily in angband and nothing is really lost if you do so. So whenever some breeder population gets out of control, you just leave the level. I'm not sure whether late game breeders would improve the game as long as this is the default solution.
I guess if you have a breeder unique, that would force you to kill it before facing the big M because you don't want to a have a breeder infection during that fight, but then the unique Q and various other summoners essentially do that already.
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Old January 5, 2015, 12:37   #10
PowerWyrm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sose View Post
My "favourite" breeder is from TomeNET.. Though it might be from somewhere else originally. Unmaker, not detected by ESP, breeds, eats walls, drains stats in melee, breathes chaos. Oh and has base immunity and a nice set of resists.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/mikaelh/tomenet...onster.php?815
TomeNET has ego breeders too that can be nasty: sparkling lice (fast breeders + shoot magic missiles like machineguns), and possessed rats (which breed more possessed rats). And ego monsters are always awake...
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