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Old February 6, 2010, 05:32   #11
Hariolor
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1) agreed, but hard to avoid. fixing the linearity of dungeon toughness is one way to do this. I also agree on turning instakill into reduction to 1HP, though anything that causes cuts or poison would still effectively be instadeath in these cases. Potions of invisibility that are cheap and effective at low levels would be a great addition to the roster of escapes. Give more powerful enemies a see_invisible flag, but most creatures that appear between 50'-1000' should be totally helpless (except perhaps G's). Also in agreement on making charms (confuse, blind, etc) effective throughout the entire game.

2) I suggested this elsewhere, but I liked it so I'll say it again: Every 10 levels one of the nine appears. Each is progressively tougher than the last. If you ignore one of them, it will continue to appear on every successive level until you kill it. Drops would have to be fixed as to not get better at deeper levels for the weaker W's. I'd suggest guaranteeing a great drop that is not a weapon/armor/wearable. Things like potions of life, arrows of holy might, that sort of thing would be great perks that make killing the "bosses" worthwhile but not game-ruining.

3) as you say, in the works

4) agreed - I'll go one farther and suggest V move completely away from the 2nd edition AD&D-style stats and to something more intuitive. Maybe a range from 1-30 with noticable improvement at EVERY integer increase?

5) make it temporary like other status effects, rename it disease as well and turn H_Life into R_Disease.

6) At this point I am convinced Angband is a game of strategy and tactics, and while there is a certain degree of fun in fighting new and exciting enemies, it's just as impressive to read a description of a new foe and say "holy sh*t" as it is to be breathed on for 500hp and say the same thing. Except the latter option results in frustratedly turning off the game for a day or two. I'm not an advocate of encouraging meta-gaming by giving precise numbers for damage dealt by a foe, but giving a general range or an average damage might not even be going too far. I'm in the "anything you could eventually learn by experimentation/probing, you should just be given from the outset". If anyone needs a rationale, the Valar granted you knowledge of all of Morgoth's dark creations in order to aid you in your quest when you chose to enter Angband.

Note: If a player is given full knowledge as in 6, then there's no longer an excuse for the 1HP provision suggested in 1. It's gotta be one or the other.
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Old February 7, 2010, 21:04   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Jonker View Post
Took a long break from roguelikes. Then got hooked on DoomRL, then played some FAAngband and Vanilla for kicks. Fun for a while until I got killed out of nowhere. Thoughts occur to me. There are certain measures that could modernize Angband to make it both more mainstream and enjoyable for hardcore fans.

1. Detect + Evade is dull. It slows the pace of the game to a snail's crawl and is necessary for all classes when it should only really be a perk for a stealth class (rogues). Ways to fix:
I disagree that this needs fixing. This is angband. You *don't* have to detect and evade - you can clear every level if you want, it just takes longer, as you have to be a bit tougher to clear any given level. Of the others:

2. I don't like breakpoints - not with you here. It did give me an idea though, related to Eddie's wishlist item about removing enchant scrolls: there should be items that can only be dropped by uniques. Enchant scrolls (or, say, branding scrolls) would be a good example: very limited supply, not abusable, but still nice to have in the game. Obviously the deeper uniques would drop better stuff.

3. This is definitely high on the agenda - just waiting for someone with time to grasp the nettle.

4. This is something Takk is already looking into, I believe. Stand by for more changes to drops.

5. Not really with you here either, though I like the idea of a free Restoration on level-up.

6. Nope. Once we get monster memory factored out of the save file, you'll be able to download a full monster memory if you want.
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Old February 8, 2010, 08:38   #13
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I disagree that this needs fixing. This is angband. You *don't* have to detect and evade - you can clear every level if you want, it just takes longer, as you have to be a bit tougher to clear any given level.
I'm in doubt as to whether this is actually a viable alternative. Sure you can scum before TANG's resist breakpoints, but eventually an OoD nasty is going to catch up with you. It's diving 101.

And I'm dubious about Pete's storied history of instadeath in roguelikes. Permadeath, yes, but instadeath? In Nethack you can count instadeath monsters on one hand, and two pieces of equipment shield you from all of them. I've never run into instadeath in Crawl or Adom either, although my experience with them is more limited. I've never run into any kind of instadeath in minor roguelikes.

Certainly, This Is Angband, and for Angband it works, but it feels a bit archaic and needless, making the learning curve prohibitively steep. YMMV.
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Old February 8, 2010, 17:32   #14
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For what it's worth, my first winner was a warrior who was played *very* conservatively. But until I found rods of detection I honestly didn't do very much detection (although I always had lots of escapes).

I'm not going to argue that the play style of killing tons of stuff you're too powerful for in hopes of random good drops is the most fun one, but I think it does make detection much less important if you have escapes (and the proper resistances).
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Old February 8, 2010, 17:58   #15
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I'm in doubt as to whether this is actually a viable alternative. Sure you can scum before TANG's resist breakpoints, but eventually an OoD nasty is going to catch up with you. It's diving 101.
My wife does fine clearing levels. Even taking all (a) quests in old NPP. She has changed a little bit -- she no longer insists on killing every druj from a graveyard.

Killing 95%+ of non-jelly-pit monsters is certainly viable.
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Old February 10, 2010, 01:26   #16
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And I'm dubious about Pete's storied history of instadeath in roguelikes. Permadeath, yes, but instadeath? In Nethack you can count instadeath monsters on one hand,
I don't: Wand of Death makes any humanoid monster in NetHack instadeath.
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and two pieces of equipment shield you from all of them.
The odds you will have that equipment on DL1 is rather minimal. (Yes, I have died on DL1 to Wand of Death in NetHack.)
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I've never run into instadeath in Crawl or Adom either, although my experience with them is more limited.
Crawl: Sigmund/DL2 pretty much is instadeath if he ambushes you.

Adom: It is rather easy for an unspoiled player to make a strategic error that leads to instadeath.
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I've never run into any kind of instadeath in minor roguelikes.
I presume you're ignoring the 1 hit point roguelikes (such as ChessRogue and Seven Weeks).
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