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View Poll Results: What is stopping you from playing Unangband?
Haven't heard of it. 3 8.33%
It doesn't sound that interesting. 3 8.33%
There's too many other variants out there. 17 47.22%
I've tried it and didn't like it. 6 16.67%
I've tried it and am waiting for the next release. 7 19.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 6, 2008, 05:39   #131
Elsairon
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I posted saying it doesn't sound interesting. The main reason is the overwhelming number of features. It just sounds too complex for me to feel interested. I could change my mind in the future if I ever get around to trying it out.
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Old February 6, 2008, 10:17   #132
Bandobras
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Thanks for feedback. Perhaps we should:
* stop advertising features and start advertising the qualities that emerge thanks to features, such as interesting AI, levels very different one from another, distinct possible play (or even role-play) styles, etc.
* improve and simplify UI for the new features (both for player actions and for display of the new things); personally I'd also unify some rules a little bit more (though Un is already quite unified)
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Old February 6, 2008, 17:17   #133
Elsairon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandobras View Post
Thanks for feedback.
Welcome.

Quote:
Perhaps we should:
* stop advertising features and start advertising the qualities that emerge thanks to features, such as interesting AI, levels very different one from another, distinct possible play (or even role-play) styles, etc.
Reading about immersive themes and improved play options does sound better to me than a huge list of features. Share what those features add to the game, what they make possible.

Quote:
* improve and simplify UI for the new features (both for player actions and for display of the new things); personally I'd also unify some rules a little bit more (though Un is already quite unified)
This was the thing that put me off the most. This sounds like a good move. Keep the additional features, but integrate them in such a way so the player is not overwhelmed with having to track 'too much iinformation.' A level of complexity forcing the player to stay aware of whats happening is one thing. Having so much going on that it takes two or three minutes to determine the next move is another.

Best -- Elsairon
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Old February 6, 2008, 20:33   #134
Daven_26d1
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I've been too busy lately to really try the latest Un release, so I can't entirely claim to know what I'm talking about, but I'd like to add a couple of points here.

Firstly, I have built the latest release and I have to report that the documentation and help files etc (the main thing that made it difficult to get into Un initially) are still in sore need of reworking. In some places, as far as I can tell, they're just plain incorrect. The in-game tips are a great idea, but still not enough.

Many feature tiles and objects in Un give descriptions of what the player can do with them, but no clear instructions - this is fine, because I think that the player is supposed to figure out how to apply the available commands correctly to achieve the desired result. Reminds me a bit of abandonware adventure games, where you know what you want to do, but have to figure out the correct two words to type. This is great, but to liken the analogy to Unangband, it's like playing one of those games in a foreign language. It's sometimes so difficult to find the correct key press for what should be a trivial action.

I can write very good English quickly and with enthusiasm, not to mention the fact that I have a great passion for prose again at the moment. Don't let my forum babbling fool you, an hour and two drafts from me generally produces work of an extremely commendable standard - and docs are hardly poetry! I always scored excellent marks at essay writing, able to squeeze in all the relevant information in a well structured, clear and accessible manner.

Unfortunately I simply don't have the time right now to do the collation & game research necessary to do what I would like to do, which is rewrite all the help files for you and add in the sections that need adding. After all, I haven't really played the game since last year. If either Bandobras or Andrew would like to meet me half-way and review the situation for me, then share good notes and ideas with me, preferably in the form of a tarball with all the existing docs etc coupled with information on all available commands and a good set of instructions for what needs to be done (or even just the issues, so that I can more quickly work out myself what needs to be done) then between a few spare hours here and there and a little communication between us, inside a week or two I should have something much better for you than what exists already.

The main problem is that the game is just growing so damn fast, and because it's largely "a bunch of brain-dead of hacks" I appreciate that keeping on top of new features and squashing bugs leaves little time for those things less important to its existing fans but of vital import to keeping new players interested.

I appreciate that the notes might already have been made; even if not the people hacking on the game are in a much better position to compile them than I am. Let me know.
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Old February 7, 2008, 07:38   #135
Anne
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I could be wrong, but I think that maybe when people see a long list of "new stuff" added to a game, Slash'Em might come to mind. I played that for a few weeks, until I saw for myself that all those New Goodies were just thrown in helter skelter, and apart from saying "oh look, that's new" it not only didn't add anything real to the game, it just unbalanced it pretty badly. And Unangband is -completely- opposite of that.

So I think you're on the right track there. People who play these games seem to look for a new experience, new type of gameplay, overall differences rather than little specific ones like items.

Elsairon - it really is an absorbing game. I'm quite impressed with it, to the extent that I'm actually ignoring my other games in favor of it. And that's saying something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daven_26d1
The in-game tips are a great idea, but still not enough.
Speaking of which... one way to eradicate redundancy would be to code the notes to appear when the subject is encountered for the first time. Obviously that would only apply to items (like the notes on mushrooms, potions). Basic gameplay notes would have to be done differently. Just a thought. The repitition honestly isn't at a level of being an annoyance - more just an appearance of imperfection, really.

And Daven, it's wonderful of you to offer to help with the documentation. I hope that works out. I'd love to lend a hand myself, but being such a beginner at this really hampers me there.

Bandobras - I decided to post a list of my results in a separate thread, since it's really so off topic for this one. I put it here.
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Old February 7, 2008, 15:32   #136
darkdrone
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i rather enjoy playing it , along with all the *Bands ;

just sometimes a player *CAN* be swamped by all the features ... lots of interesting stuff is good, but it takes time to get used to all of it...

go, Andrew!
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