possible charisma modifications

[bebo]

Looking at the feature request thread i see that almost everyone is against removing charisma (as i voted), but also that quite a few of us are also not so keen on replacing it with stealth (although i have mixed feelings on this).

Brainstorming I just came up with a couple of ideas of what could be done to make CHA a bit more interesting - most of these are quite unbalanced/time consuming to code, or could alter gameplay too much, but could be used to spark a bit of discussion - atm i have seen few proposals of actually what to do (except leaving everything as is - which is mostly fine by me: other features are higher priority imho)

Anyway, here goes:

- higher CHA reduces turns needed for stores to restock + raises quantity of items on sell + raises chances of finding ego/magical items in stores + raises chances of having more objects displayed in the black market, and those being better and better calibrated relatively to current depth and/or gold (ie there should be a chance to be able to buy them)

- higher CHA increases chances of the dungeon level being generated as very good/excellent: this is not in character with charisma per se but rather luck, and could cause problems in the first half of the game, but i though it might be an interesting idea - on the plus it gives a serious incentive to invest in cha, now that autoscum is gone (sigh...)

- higher CHA impacts on monster knowledge gathering - although now that probing is excellent this might be superfluous

- higher CHA impacts on success rates of the "charm" spells, as suggested here http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=1543 - post 10
although this doesn't remove the fact that it still remains a tertiary stat for everyone

- change the paladin and/or rogue spellcasting stat from wis/int to charisma: possibly in flavour, not such a big change, and it actually makes the stat meaningful for at least one/two class/es; int still remains crucial for magic item usage, and wisdom (a lot less crucial) for saving throws

----- EDIT: i now realize i probably got this idea from UNagnband, which handles stat effects in an innovative and interesting way (although there are too many of them and i don't like naturally increasing stats) - looking at trac there is already a ticket that suggests taking a look at this in the future

- charisma affects recharge time of rods/artifact activations: totally out of character, but could be fun

[PaulBlay]

While we're brainstorming I did have an off-the-wall idea for 'charisma'. Characters can have the attribute 'Sexy'. 'Sexy' characters have a CHA/level based chance of confusing monsters of the opposite sex and they have a (smaller) CHA/level based chance of 'sleep'ing monsters of the opposite sex. However they also have a CHA/level based chance of aggravating monsters of the same sex.

Monsters with no gender assigned are unaffected. The level modifier is done as a char level vs. monster level difference.

I freely admit that this is more of a 'variant' idea than a 'vanilla' idea but what the heck.

[PaulBlay]

I think it's worth noting that we now have five people against removing charisma and two people in favour.
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F001 -3 "Remove charisma."

One of various suggestions on what to do about charisma in Vanilla Angband.
V- from PaulBlay; V- from Nolendil; V- from Big Al; V- from Rizwan; V- from Jungle_Boy; V1 from PowerDiver; V2 from Donald Jonker
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This is obviously a controversial topic and I would like to hear as many people's thoughts as possible (also the more votes in the above thread, the better ). It would be nice to get a clear enough statement of popular opinion for the people who count to make policy decisions on this.

[PowerDiver]

You have a list of things you would like to have, that have nothing to do with charisma. They are mostly applied with a different stat that occurs in some variants that is called "luck".

If you want those sorts of effects, you should campaign to remove CHR and add a Luck attribute.

[PaulBlay]

Originally Posted by PowerDiver

You have a list of things you would like to have,

Which 'you'?

If you want those sorts of effects, you should campaign to remove CHR and add a Luck attribute.

I'm not particularly desperate for additional effects. If the choice is "extra effects or charisma goes" (which is how the argument has seemed to go in places) then I'd choose 'extra effects'.

If enough people are willing, or even eager, to see Charisma go then I'll reluctantly wave goodbye to it but I don't see why it should go if most people like having it as a stat.

Whichever the result is I would rather see this properly debated with as many different people weighing in as possible than have something go through that isn't popular just because people can't be bothered to put forward their point of view.

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by PaulBlay

Which 'you'?

I was replying to the first post in the thread. Life is better in newsgroups. I guess "you" applies to anyone who is mostly in agreement with the initial post.

[bebo]

Originally Posted by PowerDiver

I was replying to the first post in the thread. Life is better in newsgroups. I guess "you" applies to anyone who is mostly in agreement with the initial post.

I myself am not mostly in agreement with my first post, in the sense that i voted for charisma to go away altogether. I gathered from reading the forums though that the general nebulous feeling was to improve it's uses - i was merely trying to provide some food for thought.

My general impression was that not many concrete proposals were made; while it is ultimately the mantainer's job to decide what to implement and what not to, giving some community feedback and possibly providing some good ideas will probably help - after all it's everyone's interest to make the game better

Although i'm fine with things the way they currently are, it's pretty much undeniable the fact that charisma is under scrutiny by everyone, including Andi Sidwell - as the roadmap in trac shows. There will be changes (cue fatalistic rumble of thunder )