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Old January 26, 2010, 19:25   #31
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
Well, let me shock you now. That 75 was using my most conservative estimate, *BEFORE* applying a correction factor. The fact that missiles allow you to fight disenchanters and charge and stat drainers without worry holding _heal and -telOther in your pack means that I believe missile damage should count 3 times as much as melee damage for comparison purposes. So up that 75 to 225, and I maintain that is a "conservative" estimate.

And that's before the doubling. I think that means I think the extra shot on an off slot is worth about 10 times what you had it set at. I don't expect you to agree with my evaluation, but I'm not exaggerating for effect. I really think it is that powerful.

My current warrior switched from melee to missiles when I found a haradrim xbow with +23 damage. That's an x4 launcher with +1 shot, and the class with the best possible melee uses it instead of melee for important fights. Imagine how much more unbalancing it is for a weak melee char with an x5 launcher who depends upon carrying staves.
I'm actually with you on all this. I just wrote to angband-dev nominating missile damage as the most important thing to fix in 3.1.3. This isn't really about randarts at all.
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Old January 26, 2010, 20:39   #32
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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
I'm actually with you on all this. I just wrote to angband-dev nominating missile damage as the most important thing to fix in 3.1.3. This isn't really about randarts at all.
(1) shield of Haradrim has +1 shots
(2) +shots is possible at all on non-launcher randarts
(3) power eval of +1 shot on a non-launcher is way too low

I consider these collectively as artifact changes. The current context of overpowered missiles makes each one a huge mistake IMO.
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Old January 27, 2010, 01:30   #33
Shinedog
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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
I think I agree with that, although I am rather pleased that the randart generator produced a palantir with +3 shots! Presumably it didn't have (m)any other qualities (a "supercharge", in randart terminology). But yes, it does sound rather unbalancing in the current environment.

Still, now that 3.1.2 is out I'm going to try and get Takk and the other devs to come to some kind of consensus around what the big objectives are for 3.1.3. If missile rebalancing is not happening in 3.1.3 then I definitely need to fix this randart issue. If it is happening, I need to review randarts after it's done.

@Eddie: great minds think alike. The current code has 16 power per extra off-weapon blow, and 50 per shot. Admittedly not as high as your 75, but no I wasn't shocked.

Now I come to think of it, the Palantir doesn't have anywhere near 150 power, so +3 shots should have been impossible. Shinedog: I don't suppose you have the randart.log file from that game??

EDIT: dammit, I'm a factor of two out. I'd forgotten that since power pricing power is measured in half points of damage, so Eddie's recommendations are that an offweapon blow is worth 30 power and an offweapon shot 150. So my 16 and 50 now look significantly different (and it explains why the palantir could get +3 shots). Yes, I'm inclined to agree with Eddie and double or triple the power for these until missile damage is sorted.
Magnate,

I have the randart.log file. Where would you like me to send it?
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Old January 27, 2010, 18:13   #34
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Originally Posted by Shinedog View Post
Magnate,

I have the randart.log file. Where would you like me to send it?
Could you zip it and attach it to this thread? Or send it to me in a PM?

Thanks.
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