Vaults, TO, and some general musings

[AnonymousHero]

Would moster breaths be attenuated by distance in this brave new world?

[fizzix]

Originally Posted by Estie

I looked upon the no-to competition as a test run. If it turns out that grinding is the best way, then that might be bad and other changes should probably be considered like lowering monster level variance; I still didnt like being limited by forced descend when I played (your version of the competition). It is too random.

I look at these sort of things, and the various challenge games that I try to play as a way to explore specific mechanics. The result I've gleaned from this particular one is that no TO makes the midgame dungeon (40-60) too frustrating and difficult. That is the part of the game where, unless you've gotten really lucky, you will be behind the dungeon curve (on forced descent at least). Monsters show up like AMHDs, vampire lords, lesser balrogs, that you will not be able to kill along with gear ruining/tanky monsters like beholders. TO is a way to allow the player passage through those levels without having to abandon them as well as teaching a lesson that you shouldn't fight every monster.

However, it did tell me other things, specifically that vaults can be made a lot more fun without TO, but they have scaling issues currently. And that stealth is a very fun mechanic and could be used to better effect than currently. I only really talked about the vaults in this thread.

BTW, I'm not sure if anyone actually read the description I wrote for the Teleport Other spell in this comp...

[Nick]

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero

Would moster breaths be attenuated by distance in this brave new world?

Monst of them

Seriously though, attenuated cone-shaped breaths (as in O, NPP, etc) make good sense to me as

1. Adding tactical interest and
2. Distinguishing breaths from spells.

so they're fairly high on my list of possible changes. After the restructure.

[fizzix]

Originally Posted by Nick

Monst of them

Seriously though, attenuated cone-shaped breaths (as in O, NPP, etc) make good sense to me as

1. Adding tactical interest and
2. Distinguishing breaths from spells.

so they're fairly high on my list of possible changes. After the restructure.

Cool, I think this would help a lot with some of the balance issues that exist when you have multiple monsters in range.

[buzzkill]

One variant I played long ago, it may have been Fay, had chests/coffers that were unmovable/attached to the floor. If you wanted what was inside, you had to crack it open/waste many turns/risk setting off the trap inside the vault. It stuck with me that this was pretty cool, rather than lugging a chest up to the safety of town.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by buzzkill

One variant I played long ago, it may have been Fay, had chests/coffers that were unmovable/attached to the floor. If you wanted what was inside, you had to crack it open/waste many turns/risk setting off the trap inside the vault. It stuck with me that this was pretty cool, rather than lugging a chest up to the safety of town.

Indeed yes. All it needs is chest types with very high value; in the last room of a vault, instead of having artifacts and ego items on the floor, there could be one or more of those.

Since there are already different chest types about, its just a matter of making big ones (large steel chest being the biggest ?) immune to the various aoe attacks and increasing amount&quality of their drops, place them into vaults and not place them anywhere else (in addition to immobility).

That way, you can fight vaults without fear of destroying the loot (earthquake might still kill chests?) and its impossible to tell whats in a vault before actually clearing it.

[Nick]

At last behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened had not Elessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the Ring, but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. One was a small case of gold attached to a fine chain; it was empty, and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borne the Ring about Isildur’s neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost forever; the Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom.

So vaults could contain cupboards.

[getter77]

There are/were all manner of special chests in Portralis---why not lift some highly dramatic bits from it to bring some home to Vanilla, as it were, so long as it isn't interwoven with The Curse of Maths Madness that came to stalk it into oblivion where it still rests?

[fizzix]

More vault ideas that I've been playing with.

1) Nicking Crawl's Ziggurats. Basically these are one-time-only branches, where each level has a one way entrance and two exits, one back to the dungeon and one to the next level. Each level has increasingly difficult monsters and increasingly better loot. With Nick's new restruct apparatus to save levels, we should be able to implement something like this without too much difficulty. For Angband, we'd have to make destruction not work inside. I'd also give the player advanced knowledge of what lies on the next floor so there can be a somewhat educated decision.

2) One way exits to vaults + penalties for teleporting out. Imagine a vault with a single door entrance and 2-3 difficult monsters inside. Once you enter the vault, the door closes behind you (becomes a permanent wall) and another door appears on the opposite side of the vault. Forbid teleport other (and monster teleportation) inside vault. Player teleportation is allowed, but then the vault is completely sealed. There could also be some penalty for teleporting out, like destruction of inventory or a small permanent stat drain. So basically there's a risk for entry, but that risk isn't life/death but rather risk of inventory items. A player is more likely to take them. Once you exit the vault, either through the exit door or via teleport, both doors are permanently closed.

[krazyhades]

Yeah, I've been in favor of a DCSS Ziggurat style approach for a while now. I also really like the vault-sealing idea.