Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 20, 2013, 06:10   #41
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Good work. Sorry, I didn't know which were actually typos and which were just my sense of spelling being off. I'm sure they'll come right.

A.
takkaria help find the typos. I had to do some extra work today to fix all the now broken references to FRIEND(S) and ESCORT(S) but that's been done and the request has been merged as of today.

Feedback and further suggestions are greatly appreciated. I haven't had a chance to play with these changes yet, but I may do that soon.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27, 2013, 10:10   #42
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,009
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Feedback and further suggestions are greatly appreciated. I haven't had a chance to play with these changes yet, but I may do that soon.
Are there any brave testers out there? I'd be interested to see feedback / AARs...

A.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27, 2013, 17:31   #43
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
I've been doing some playing with the new group sizes; in general things look good. I've posted most of my feedback in the IRC channel. The main things I've noticed:

* Giants now effectively show up in groups, which makes them considerably more dangerous. They have high melee damage output; previously, fighting one was doable but you'd need to rest up afterwards. That's no longer possible.
* Bolg and Azog show up together; ditto Sangahyandor and Angamaite, Bill, Bert, and Tom, and a few other combinations. Mostly this just means you put off the confrontation until even later than you used to.
* Early novice adventurer group sizes have improved (i.e. gotten smaller), though there's still more of 'em than there were back in the 2.8 days. Oh well.
* Sometimes a "grouping" will be split by a wall; sometimes that wall means that the walking distance between entities in the grouping is actually quite large. Usually this doesn't happen though.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27, 2013, 19:03   #44
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
* Giants now effectively show up in groups, which makes them considerably more dangerous. They have high melee damage output; previously, fighting one was doable but you'd need to rest up afterwards. That's no longer possible.
* Bolg and Azog show up together; ditto Sangahyandor and Angamaite, Bill, Bert, and Tom, and a few other combinations. Mostly this just means you put off the confrontation until even later than you used to.
Would it be appropriate to move these monsters deeper, or weaken them in some way? I knew this was a possible issue going in, but I think overall it's a huge improvement to have Bill, Tom and Bert appear together as opposed to separately with their individual escorts.

Quote:
* Early novice adventurer group sizes have improved (i.e. gotten smaller), though there's still more of 'em than there were back in the 2.8 days. Oh well.
Yeah, I did throttle them at depth pretty strongly, but there still will be mixed groups of 2-5 fairly often at level 2. It used to be that they weren't grouped at all until level 5 or so. That's not true now. I'm not sure there's an easy fix.

Quote:
* Sometimes a "grouping" will be split by a wall; sometimes that wall means that the walking distance between entities in the grouping is actually quite large. Usually this doesn't happen though.
Yes, I didn't feel like writing extra architecture to fix this problem, but it's on my list of possible inclusions for 3.5. Right now scattering had two options when deciding where to place the group of friends, you can enforce LoS or not. I chose not to, so that monsters in corridors can still have escorts. The proper way to do it is to choose a space within a N square heat map of the original location, and place the friends there.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27, 2013, 19:13   #45
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Would it be appropriate to move these monsters deeper, or weaken them in some way? I knew this was a possible issue going in, but I think overall it's a huge improvement to have Bill, Tom and Bert appear together as opposed to separately with their individual escorts.
I think that Bill, Tom, and Bert are fine, really -- they're not too difficult to avoid, and by the time you can face one, odds are decent you can face the others too back-to-back (or at least teleport away and rest up). I'm less fond of the giants showing up in groups though.

Quote:
Yeah, I did throttle them at depth pretty strongly, but there still will be mixed groups of 2-5 fairly often at level 2. It used to be that they weren't grouped at all until level 5 or so. That's not true now. I'm not sure there's an easy fix.
Let's see how it plays; the current system may well be fine. Certainly it's better than getting curbstomped by a group of 15 soldiers at dlvl2, which is what was happening previously!
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2013, 02:49   #46
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I think that Bill, Tom, and Bert are fine, really -- they're not too difficult to avoid, and by the time you can face one, odds are decent you can face the others too back-to-back (or at least teleport away and rest up). I'm less fond of the giants showing up in groups though.
What changes if any would you like to see for the giants? The two Umbar-ians?
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2013, 02:59   #47
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
I think having solo giants appear with a smattering of hounds is fine; the giants don't need to appear in groups. I always imagined giants as being rather solitary creatures anyway.

If you do want them to appear in groups, that needs to happen well after they first start showing up. An individual giant is actually a fairly challenging melee opponent when you first see them; they don't need the power boost from showing up in groups until later after they're individually less of a threat. A weird analogy would be if you first started seeing Forest Trolls singly at 400' or something -- they'd be difficult but doable. If they started showing up in groups at that depth, though, then you'd have a problem.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2013, 13:34   #48
PowerWyrm
Prophet
 
PowerWyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,832
PowerWyrm is on a distinguished road
I'm just porting this for my variant, and it will be fun to do the same with all extra monsters that had FRIENDS or ESCORT flags...

In the process, I've found a couple (minor) issues:
- typos: I don't know if it matters, but some names don't have the right case (for example: Greater balrog when it should be Greater Balrog)
- alignment: in standard D&D, an adventuring party can't have both good and evil members, so I would change some of the friends for them (for example: don't put Black knights with Paladins)
__________________
PWMAngband variant maintainer - check http://powerwyrm.monsite-orange.fr (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!
PowerWyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2013, 14:49   #49
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
I'm just porting this for my variant, and it will be fun to do the same with all extra monsters that had FRIENDS or ESCORT flags...

In the process, I've found a couple (minor) issues:
- typos: I don't know if it matters, but some names don't have the right case (for example: Greater balrog when it should be Greater Balrog)
- alignment: in standard D&D, an adventuring party can't have both good and evil members, so I would change some of the friends for them (for example: don't put Black knights with Paladins)
I'll try to fix the case typos, but I'm pretty sure they don't matter.

I'm also pretty sure that the enemy paladins in angband are "evil" paladins, whatever that means.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2013, 16:17   #50
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I'm also pretty sure that the enemy paladins in angband are "evil" paladins, whatever that means.
Angband is pretty inconsistent about which enemies are evil. Acolytes aren't evil, but priests are. Soldiers aren't evil, swordsmen aren't evil, hardened warriors are. The last two are especially weird because "swordsman" has been renamed to "Easterling warrior", and "hardened soldier" to "Easterling champion"! So the champions are evil, but the rank and file aren't.

In any case, I'm pretty sure none of the paladin line are evil; just misguided and overzealous.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Angband Facebook group CJNyfalt Idle chatter 1 October 16, 2019 04:51
Vanilla group AI bug fizzix Development 0 January 10, 2010 05:12
Excessive amounts of gold? Sean Vanilla 3 March 19, 2009 17:44
Variant maintainers group game Antoine Variants 9 February 8, 2009 00:17


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.