Things I don't like about current V (long-ish)

[fph]

Originally Posted by debo

"N levels of resistance will reduce breath damage by 1/(Nth prime number)"

Fibonacci would make some sense, too.

[Scatha]

Originally Posted by fph

Fibonacci would make some sense, too.

I think it would be quite unintuitive if your first source of resistance didn't do anything.

[half]

Originally Posted by Patashu

Out of curiosity, in what ways were archers made dumber?

They currently fight in melee when pinned against a wall, and only flee from that position if afraid. They used to do better by always trying to flee from that situation to get back to archery. This is commented in the source as 'artificial stupidity'.

[buzzkill]

Originally Posted by Nick

Regarding changes to food...

I like the general idea, but it does kind of mean food becomes potions in a different form. Possible solutions would be to make all food perishable, or to make food have a slight slowing effect (so it's not really a battle item).

I agree. The solution isn't to remove food, or 'change' it into something else. Here's what I'd try.

Eliminate the spells (mostly): Maybe leave a high level, high cost hunger spell for specific class(s) in the late game. Make scrolls exceedingly rare and never sold or eliminate them outright. At the very least, change satisfy hunger to a potion. That just makes more sense.

Eliminate food from the stores (mostly): Bye bye buying a stack of rations. Sell single quantity, varied food items (meats, breads, veggies). "That was a tasty carrot. You are still hungry."

Make food more plentiful and varied in the dungeon (and no food floor generated on revisited levels): Starvation shouldn't be a concern as long as the player keeps moving (preferably down). Varying the food means it will be less likely to stack, so if one wants to stockpile food, it's going take some space in the pack.

Make food provide less nutrition (maybe lessen the size of @'s stomach also): IMO it just makes sense that @ should eat a large meal (eat many different food items at the same time requiring many turns) every once in a while, or snack continuously.

Make deeper food, better food: Ease off of the 'hunger game' in the second half of the dungeon. New food types (just like everything else) will begin to appear in the deep. These deep food items will function better (just like everything else) leaving the player to focus on staying alive.

Re perishable food: I like the concept, but wouldn't want it in V, as goes for most of the fine suggestions made in this thread, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody.

[fizzix]

Originally Posted by buzzkill

I agree. The solution isn't to remove food, or 'change' it into something else. Here's what I'd try...

Go play DCSS which does these things and more. Food is still an annoyance, and hardly interesting in any way. There are only two reasons to have food in the game that I can see. Or if you're short on time, just listen to this.

1) Make it a true clock. You are forced to descend in the dungeon because you can no longer find food on your current level. Nick has expressly forbidden this sort of mechanic in vanilla play and I can't say I disagree.

2) Make it a consumable management situation. Food gives positive effects but fills you up. Here food is used as a limitation management. You can't eat too many "healing packets" before you are full. We sort of had this with the gorged status previously, but that was universally hated. I don't think this is a good idea either. It's far better served by having a contamination counter from too many potions being quaffed.

Furthermore in both cases, food requires tight balance from the maintainers for very little extra fun for the players.

In any other cases, food is dumb. (This includes Sil. You only need one hunger clock, and Sil has the min-depth clock.)

I also think light should always be everburning. Yeah it's unrealistic. But light resource management is also boring and gives very limited fun for the players.

[debo]

Has anyone here played poscheng? I'm pretty sure dying of starvation is a real danger against the final boss, as he hits to make you mega hungry while summoning and doing a billion other things. I've seen clouded fight him several times, and I thought it was sort of neat. Maybe not a good fit for V, though.

[fizzix]

Originally Posted by debo

Has anyone here played poscheng? I'm pretty sure dying of starvation is a real danger against the final boss, as he hits to make you mega hungry while summoning and doing a billion other things. I've seen clouded fight him several times, and I thought it was sort of neat. Maybe not a good fit for V, though.

You can go this route. In which case hunger is sort of a second health bar (that constantly decreases over time). But IMO you need a really good gameplay justification for a second health bar. And if you're going to go this route, then hunger status needs to be displayed in the same level of detail as HP.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by half

They currently fight in melee when pinned against a wall, and only flee from that position if afraid. They used to do better by always trying to flee from that situation to get back to archery. This is commented in the source as 'artificial stupidity'.

Yeah, that is definitely a change I would not want reverted (unless for a specific new kind of monster?)

[Raxmei]

Quite a lot of overlap with my feelings. The other things I dislike about V would involve massive changes, making them not so much a pet peeve issue as they are fuel for a variant.

x+1 : Too many elements. We've already cut out confusion as a damage type. I could imagine doing with just fire, cold, poison, and nether. In the process cut way back on the Zephyr hounds. Resistances become both much rarer and additive. Yes, I am aware that Sil already is much like this.

x+2 : Summoning. It really warps the late game. Battles shift from dealing with the thing you're fighting to containing the flood of junk they vomit up. The summoning system could be revamped or at least just cut way back on how many monsters can do it.

[Derakon]

One thing I'd like to see is a reduction in message spam. The way I've coded attack messaging in Pyrel looks like this:

You attack/burn/smite/etc. the Foo (37, 42, 65!, miss, 99!!!)

The exclamation points indicate critical hits, stealing Sil's idea of multiple exclamation points for better crits. I guess you lose a tiny bit of flavor this way (no "*GREAT*" hits) but the messaging is far, far more compact this way.

Compacting monster attacks is trickier, as each attack may do something different. I could imagine something like:

The Master lich attacks you (touch drain experience 0, touch drain charges 0, miss, touch drain DEX 6). 
You feel your life force draining away! Energy drains from your pack! You feel clumsier.

That's only marginally more compact, but oh well.