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Old January 7, 2012, 21:11   #61
Storch
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I am dying of hunger. All characters. No food whatsoever. Am I missing something?

Crashes with window resize are limited to just one computer and thus not reproducable. I think I will live with that.
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:12   #62
Scatha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallucinationMushroom View Post
How do you make a character dump in Sil?
From the character screen, press (s)ave to a file;
or use (g) to save the character sheet in the death menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
Hmm, one more thing - on the third page of the help screen, there's a section marked "Unnecessary", containing some rather useful commands.
They are unnecessary in the sense that you can do everything without these commands, so there's no need for new players to learn them. The inventory and equipment screens can be accessed by having the appropriate windows open; the inventory commands can all be achieved via (u)se, and the others, which we can collectively call terrain interaction commands, can be achieved via Control or /.
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:16   #63
HallucinationMushroom
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There is a mind-over-body technique in the will skills that greatly slows your hunger. It's pretty cheap to obtain, especially if you are playing a will affinity race. I've been grabbing it right off the bat to maximize returns on it.
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:17   #64
HallucinationMushroom
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Ah, thanks for the chardump help! I was staring right at it and totally missed it.
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:25   #65
Scatha
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Originally Posted by Narvius View Post
Then, I usually do fine until I meet orc archers. Often, I defeat them, but barely. And the few cases I don't defeat them, I'm meat.

I'd avoid them, but usually once I realize they are there, they notice me and chase me through the entire level. Effectively.

I could make a run for the stairs every time, but... eh. :/
So, any hints on how to dispatch them? I'll try putting a few points into Song/Elbereth in the next few games and see how I fare.
There are actually a number of different strategies for dealing with orc archers. For instance: heavy armour (high protection values) is pretty effective at stopping the arrows (evasion is less good, since your evasion is halved against archery); you can kill them with archery of your own -- in a situation where only one of them can fire at a time if it's still a problem; you can sneak up on them and kill them before they notice you (or sneak past them); you can chase them with Sprinting or Opportunist. I hope you can get one of these to work for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storch
I am dying of hunger. All characters. No food whatsoever. Am I missing something?
As mentioned, Mind over Body is always available, but most of the time I don't think this should be needed. Can I ask: are you finding you're wearing rings of hunger on death? Alternatively, are you using the stairs a lot? Each time you use the stairs uses 100 turns worth of food (as well as 100 turns on the turn count, which is counted for the forced descent) -- this is meant to discourage abuse of the stairs.
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:39   #66
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Originally Posted by Scatha View Post
As mentioned, Mind over Body is always available, but most of the time I don't think this should be needed. Can I ask: are you finding you're wearing rings of hunger on death? Alternatively, are you using the stairs a lot? Each time you use the stairs uses 100 turns worth of food (as well as 100 turns on the turn count, which is counted for the forced descent) -- this is meant to discourage abuse of the stairs.
I have zero will points, so no Mind over body. I am playing very simple warrior type. No rings of hunger. I will try to avoid stairs if that makes the problem worse. My point was that I have not encountered anything to eat in the dungeon. Perharps I should herbivore some herbs?
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Old January 7, 2012, 21:52   #67
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Oh. Heavy armor... yes. I think my heavy bias towards fragile speedster sword/spearmen is starting to rear it's ugly head.

But, that's one good thing that roguelikes do for me. They force me to use everything I have at my disposal to get further (which, incidentally, is why I play nosell in V). That's GOT to color off onto my real life behavior at some point.

[Edit]
On the topic of food.
Food generally serves as something to push you forward. In my opinion, this works well neither in V (push button to not die) nor in Sil (pray you find food). It's well-enough done in DC:SS, where food is readily available as long as you kill stuff (most of the time), and coupled with a low respawn rate of monsters and monster meat rotting, it keeps you going.
Sil has a much more effective means of pushing the player forwards (diminishing XP return and the much more explicit min depth). I'm in favor of removing food altogether - the only use I see is keeping the player from staying on any given level for too long, since it is more likely to find food when you advance. But! Even if a player wants to spend several million turns on one level farming orcs for that 1 XP per head, he WILL be royally screwed once he gets dumped in Morgoths face after that. And there could be some other mechanic to prevent ungodly amounts of time spent on a single level.
So... This would of course slightly decrease the pool of magical items, and therefore drain some likely XP from the global pool... and probably other implications. But still.

Bug report.
I have a battle axe. When equipped, I have a total damage output of 3d8 (at 2 strength), and the axe shows as (-3, 3d6). When it rests in my inventory, though, it shows as (-3, 3d4).
Savefile.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Shinya.zip (34.7 KB, 68 views)
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Last edited by Narvius; January 7, 2012 at 22:34.
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Old January 7, 2012, 22:46   #68
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About food and time limit.
I have some different thought about this for my variant.

Food is not really a time limit, it is more a rest limit, if you kill monsters fast, you gain extra food, if you rest too much (or use stair too much, that in my variant costs about 7 times more food then it does in sil) you starve. (it is important, that food is relatively heavy, so you cannot get food stock for moderately long time, you have to get food constantly)

As for pushing forward, there is nothing more then desire to win, and get a high score. You get lower score for going slowly, also staying at low levels gives allmost no reward and does not help surviving deeper levels later.

I see problem in time limit as it is implemented here. The problem is not the limit itself, but the fact, that it is obviously better to go as slow as possible, so this fact, coupled with hard limit removes the main choice of roguelike "Am I confident to go forward ?"
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Old January 7, 2012, 23:11   #69
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I'm halfway to the bottom and have only seen one food drop. I've only used the stairs going downward and have the slow-hunger trait so I still have my initial food stockpile, but lack of food is certainly cause enough to make one nervous! Same case for light, so far. I'm probably going to have to burn some experience to learn either the song of light or how to forge a lantern.
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Old January 7, 2012, 23:51   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storch View Post
I am dying of hunger. All characters. No food whatsoever. Am I missing something?
That is quite odd, and I'm not sure what is going on. I almost never have trouble with food (over more than 100 games), and I don't get the Mind Over Body ability. You do have to identify the herb types (all of which can be done from use) as Herbs of Sustenance are particularly useful and Herbs of Emptiness are particularly bad. I think that food drops are more common overall when you get deeper. All potions and herbs provide a small amount of sustenance, so be prepared to eat/drink them in emergencies (even the negative ones), though again it never comes down to this for me. There are rings of hunger and rings of sustenance, the latter of which will be useful for you. You could forge one yourself. Rings of Hunger are not cursed in Sil, which actually makes them nastier as you don't notice you are wearing one.

Ultimately my guess is that you are just having bad luck, and I'd advise getting Mind over Body when you eat your last bit of food (and taking off unidentified rings at that point too). Starting with no points in Will, it only costs 1,100 experience to get Mind over body, which is pretty cheap.

I have more trouble with light, though this mainly just means having to turn back to torches if my lantern runs out, rather than moving to complete darkness.
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