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Old January 11, 2012, 02:47   #1
will_asher
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Sil is too hard

Am I missing something or am I just the only non-*banding expert who's posting Sil dumps? This game is too hard.
I run away down the stairs and suddenly yet another group of orcs appear on the stairs (shouldn't they come one at a time? That must be a wide staircase for them to all come down at once) including a unique. So I go down a hallway to get away from them because their group ai means they won't follow me. Then I decide to drink a few potions to see if any of them will give me any buffs to help me fight the orcs. First one I drink is a potion of slowing. seems like in two moves I was surrounded. What happened to their group ai?? I thought I was safe at the other end of the hallway. How'd they know I was slowed?
This variant should be called "There's no escape!"
I really don't like having a small limited number of turns to spend at each depth. I always feel rushed. If I run away down the stairs, it uses an extra 100 turns so I end up deeper faster when I was already at a depth I couldn't survive.
Maybe I should stick to DaJAngband.

PS: I have yet to see a single mode of magical ID in the game. Is there any? Or do we have to ID everything by use? In which case the first one of any good potion/scroll is wasted on being IDed. In a short game where magic items are so scarce, this is bad.

EDIT/PPS: In this game, I always feel like I need more tools to help me defend myself. I see monsters that will probably kill me, then start going the other direction and see more monsters. (hence NoescapeBand) So I look in my inventory for something that will help and all I have is a bunch of nonmagical weapons and armor and a potion of poison or slowing. Does ?phase door exist in this game? Even a wand of stinking cloud would really help sometimes.
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Last edited by will_asher; January 11, 2012 at 02:56.
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Old January 11, 2012, 07:50   #2
Estie
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My imression was that you are supposed to pick stealth and avoid everything.
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Old January 11, 2012, 08:23   #3
Storch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
My imression was that you are supposed to pick stealth and avoid everything.
I tried two different approaches. Stealthy character with perception and warrior type. Warrior type is imho easier.

Stealth in Sil is great, you can go unnoticed around group of orcs. But when one notices you, he shouts and than you can only run. If you are slower than the bad guys or they have ranged attack (easterling archers, urgh), you are dead.

I think that the game is probably not THAT difficult. It is different. Moreover, it has only 20 levels so every stairs down mean that you are diving pretty fast.

I remember that Angband seemed very difficult years ago to me.

On the other hand, I agree that it seems that AI cheats sometimes. Monsters sometimes seem to know things they should not know.
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Old January 11, 2012, 13:04   #4
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Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
First one I drink is a potion of slowing. seems like in two moves I was surrounded. What happened to their group ai?? I thought I was safe at the other end of the hallway. How'd they know I was slowed?
Group AI only works when you're inside a corridor, not at intersections or bends.
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Old January 11, 2012, 13:55   #5
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It seems, that more or less hack n slash character just go and kill all in his way, until he is surrounded and afraid, then he dies.
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Old January 11, 2012, 15:29   #6
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Originally Posted by Storch View Post
On the other hand, I agree that it seems that AI cheats sometimes. Monsters sometimes seem to know things they should not know.
I'd be interested to hear of specific examples of this, as I'm prepared to change things if it is widely perceived as unfair. Orcs do indeed modify their behaviour based on your health and your status conditions (e.g. fear, blindness, stunning, paralysis, slowness). This seems pretty fair to me though. You change your behaviour based on whether the monsters are afraid, stunned, slow etc.
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Old January 11, 2012, 15:31   #7
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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Group AI only works when you're inside a corridor, not at intersections or bends.
Slightly more accurately, it is still working at those points, it is just that they charge in if they can get into a 2 vs 1 position, and they often can at an intersection or bend in the corridor.
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Old January 11, 2012, 15:48   #8
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I just found another possible warriors death: disarming. Can be countered by extra weapons maybe.
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Old January 11, 2012, 15:59   #9
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Originally Posted by LostTemplar View Post
It seems, that more or less hack n slash character just go and kill all in his way, until he is surrounded and afraid, then he dies.
The trick with this kind of character is to try not to let yourself become surrounded. You often have some choice over where to fight your battles, and choosing somewhere with an escape route can help a lot. Of course you also need to be prepared to retreat at the right time -- because there are generally no instant escapes in Sil you may need to do this as soon as you can see a situation which looks like it might develop badly, rather than waiting until you're close to dead.

There are ways to deal with being surrounded, though (although it is bad news); herbs of rage can help you fight your way out, and a Staff of Majesty or the Song of Elbereth can make your opponents run away (but may not work instantly, particularly if you are wounded which tends to make them braver).

Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
Am I missing something or am I just the only non-*banding expert who's posting Sil dumps? This game is too hard.
The game is meant to be hard, but not impossibly so. I think you are probably making some systematic tactical errors which are getting you into trouble (see also the first half of this post, my reply to LostTemplar). However I will note that three of the people who have posted to the ladder, including me, were beta-testers (and alpha-testers!) for the game, so have had a while longer to get used to the style of play it calls for.

Quote:
PS: I have yet to see a single mode of magical ID in the game. Is there any? Or do we have to ID everything by use? In which case the first one of any good potion/scroll is wasted on being IDed. In a short game where magic items are so scarce, this is bad.
There are some staves which can identify items for you; there's also the Perception ability, Lore Master, which automatically identifies everything for you (as well as giving you full knowledge of monsters and artefacts). It's a bit too expensive to be sensible to grab right at the start, but it's not unreasonable to aim for if you don't like playing the identify-by-use game. And there are no scrolls in Sil!

I can maybe provide more specific tips if you could share, say, a screenshot and a character dump at a point where you think things might go badly (don't leave it until things have gone badly, as that can be too late). From your existing character dumps, I'd suggest that you might find the early game a little easier with slightly higher investment in melee and evasion (and/or Dexterity).

Last edited by Scatha; January 11, 2012 at 16:12.
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Old January 11, 2012, 16:14   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostTemplar View Post
I just found another possible warriors death: disarming. Can be countered by extra weapons maybe.
I usually carry a spare weapon or too. Even if it were not for orc captains (and Balrogs...) you often have a few weapons good for different situations, such as weapons with different slays or a big weapon for things that are resistant to critical hits. Fights with creatures that disarm you can certainly be pretty tense, even with a spare weapon or two.
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