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Old April 29, 2022, 13:33   #11
tangar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkie View Post
The vanilla era stretches all of the three ages
Indeed, you are right I confused it with FA.. dwelled too deep in my variant
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Old April 29, 2022, 16:32   #12
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Just in case there aren't enough orc uniques in the game, a recent re-read of LotR discovered Mauhur the Uruk who was waiting in Fangorn to ambush the riders of Rohan and rescue Ugluk's band. Any love for Mauhur?
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Old April 29, 2022, 17:21   #13
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Mauhur should be listed in the unique list as soon as you kill Lagduf, as dead :P

Edit: Wait, Lagduf wasnt with the orcs that captured the hobbits - that was an orc just called "Snaga" ?
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Old April 30, 2022, 16:52   #14
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IIRC Lagduf and Muzgash are orcs whose role is to get shot with arrows at the tower of Cirith Ungol.

Yes, let's talk about Snaga. Reading LotR as a kid, I always got the impression that Snaga was the name of an individual orc. What evidence is there to the contrary? The *Band universe treats it as the name of a breed of orc. Someone break this down for me?
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Old April 30, 2022, 17:30   #15
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Originally Posted by Djabanete View Post
Yes, let's talk about Snaga. Reading LotR as a kid, I always got the impression that Snaga was the name of an individual orc. What evidence is there to the contrary? The *Band universe treats it as the name of a breed of orc. Someone break this down for me?
Possible source would be either the Iron Crown MERP RPG, or Tolkien’s excessive notes and letters. Or it could be utterly non-canon.

Either way, I don’t see a need to change it just because it’s possibly an error.
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Old April 30, 2022, 19:01   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
Possible source would be either the Iron Crown MERP RPG, or Tolkien’s excessive notes and letters. Or it could be utterly non-canon.

Either way, I don’t see a need to change it just because it’s possibly an error.
A lot of the non-canon texts in Angband come from MERP (like the names of the Nazgul). I think the idea of snagas as weaker orcs is fine, even if it's not strictly canon. It's close enough.
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Old April 30, 2022, 22:22   #17
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Either way, I don’t see a need to change it just because it’s possibly an error.
Sure. I was just wondering if anybody knew the "right" answer. This seems like a place where Tolkien scholars might lurk!

If Shagrat addresses an orc as "Snaga," it could be because Snaga is that orc's name, or it could also be a (perhaps condescending) epithet or descriptor of status. The capitalization isn't a guide, because I think Tolkien capitalized Orc and Uruk. As a kid I automatically interpreted it the first way, but it's actually ambiguous. Perhaps some corner of Tolkien scholarship sheds light on this.

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Snaga_(orc_of_Isengard)
According to this, a certain Isengard orc was also addressed as Snaga, not just the orc in the tower of Cirith Ungol. I don't remember that. This would suggest that Snaga is a type of orc, that *bands are correct, and that I mistook Snaga for a proper name. I'll have to dig out my copy of The Two Towers.

Last edited by Djabanete; April 30, 2022 at 22:29.
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Old May 1, 2022, 00:02   #18
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From the appendix to RotK:
Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech, though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-Orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kinds were called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga 'slave'.
I also thought it was just a name on reading the story only.
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Old May 1, 2022, 03:00   #19
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From the appendix to RotK:
Orc is the form of the name that other races had for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech, though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-Orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kinds were called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga 'slave'.
I also thought it was just a name on reading the story only.
So Angband gets it right! Us Angband scholars can all give ourselves an undeserved pat on the back. At least snaga is canon, even if there's no Bill Ferny to kill. It's a shame, because of all Tolkien's baddies, I'd take particular joy in slaying the sneering pony abuser.
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Old May 1, 2022, 03:35   #20
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Thanks for the answer, Nick!

Oh hey, if we're listing all the canonical baddies who aren't in the game, isn't there an orc called Radbug somewhere?

I read that Tolkien's early drafts included the idea of one or more Maiar that took the form of Orcs. Boldog was either the name of one such Maia or the title of any Orc-Maia. It's not canon, but it does spring from Tolkien's imagination (unlike LotR MECCG names). I think a very powerful Orc (unique or not) would be a memorable monster. Orcs are pretty basic, but what supernatural powers would an Orc have if an Orc were a Maia with supernatural powers?

(*) Haste self
(*) Breathe sound (i.e., shout really loudly)
(*) Point at you incanting terribly
(*) Hit to drain experience (leaning into the "dark Maia" aspect)
(*) Summon hounds (Orcs have Wargs ... Boldog(s) get hounds?)
(*) Summon demons
(*) Summon kin (yeah, Orcs --- super weak, but part of the flavor, and no other monster does this. Creates tension between wanting to farm the Orcs for items and being afraid of demon summons.)

Non-supernatural
(*) Hit to cut, stun, and/or poison
(*) Shoot arrows (this would just make it more like Uruks and Black Orcs, and also weaker)

It could come with an escort of Orcs, mostly for flavor, since they'd be mere filler by that point in the game. It would be quite funny to plow through some Orcs on auto-pilot and then realize that a serious unique is among them :-D

Last edited by Djabanete; May 1, 2022 at 04:59.
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