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Old October 28, 2017, 01:00   #11
Pete Mack
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Yes, you will want _Tele for sure. Note that I bought it at the first opportunity, at DL 18. You can slog through hydras with a big stack of PD and CSW, phasing away to heal. And of course if you find a good early ego bow (or wand of frost bolts), you can kill them easily from a distance. They're vulnerable to cold, so frost bolts or cold branded weapons work particularly well.
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Old October 28, 2017, 02:56   #12
Pete Mack
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Take 2. HE Rogue, because HE can get 2.7 blows, while most other races get 2.0 at best
Starting options identical to above.
Gear:
MB1
?Recall
10 oil
6 CLW
7 ?PD
Main Gauche
AC 20 (17+3)
Extra torch
!Heroism (Note: this serves two purposes: as a cure for fear, and as a buff if Bullroarer or the like shows up early.)
DL 1: Find stais fast, no kills
DL 2: Acolyte and apprentice mage for CL 2. CL3 Exploring, CL 4 from special room (use ID and monsters) Use ID Speed. Deep descent (2 scrolls)
DL 7: Stairs
DL 8: CL 5 from Nighthawk, 6 from BBD. Now have detect monsters, so can begin real dive. Deep Descent.
DL 13: DL 10 from huge group of wolves and hill orcs, but suppliea are exhausted, so recall to escape.
Town: 711 AU. Restock, but no good weapon. 12 CLW +staff. 9 PD, 12 !oil. Total kills: 57, or 6 per CL. Now have detect stairs, detect objects with 50% fail. Only suitable for good level feeling at this point.
DL 13: Maul of Slay Troll in starting room. Damage 25.5/54. Hope to find trolls.
DL 14: Level feeling 7, tons of monsters detected in every direction. Turns out to be jelly pit, but not before CL 13, and awl-pike of Slay Evil from Bullroarer. Damage 32/19, which is probably better than the maul. (Plenty of evil enemies to find.)
DL 15: Orfax drops Collanon. Use other deep descent because things are easy again, and advancement is slow. Kills: 130
DL 20: LF 8. Umbar twins in the distance. Will avoid them, having no way to do big damage. Quickly detect vault in a different direction. Vault monsters are easy, because of a big group of White Wolves and another of weak orcs.
Vault: Lt XBow of accuracy (+17,+11) (and bolts for 44 damage), along with enough weak ego armor to get rCold and rAcid. There's a Lance of *slay orc* with Free action, but it's way too heavy to be really useful. CL 16, Kills: 176.
DL 21: Quick stairs
DL 22: LF 7. The XBow will kill pretty much everything at this level easily. Rod of Detection, which will save Mana, and Rod of Light. Level feeling is from Vault with Vampire Lord, which I can't possibly handle. But Lagduf drops Lance of Eorlingas, for total speed +4, and 122/96/71 damage. That is *fantastic*, and Eorlingas is an endgame weapon (barely. I did use it once to kill Morgoth.)
This concludes the exercise, CL 18, DL 22, kills 209 turns 6500. I have Rbase, sort of, using a swap amulet.
Character can handle almost any at-level monster in melee; the rest will fall easily to Ring of Flames and bolts. Base speed +4 is extremely good for this level, and excellent stealth means picking fights carefully.

Elapsed Time: 1 hour. Again, note-taking really slowed play.
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Old October 28, 2017, 05:10   #13
Pete Mack
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@Diogenes--
use-ID makes selling even more tedious. You have to ID all those mystery weapons that show up and have no other conceivable use. A War Hammer of Slay orc, for example. And then it may just be cursed... With no-selling, you can just drop these l, and wait for a *slay* weapon to show up where the slay is obvious, and the weapon actually may have real use. Only branded weapons and slay evil are anything you care about, and those are both trivial to ID.
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Old October 28, 2017, 12:06   #14
Diogenes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
and wait for a *slay* weapon to show up where the slay is obvious,
Sounds like a good tip. Now I only have to convince the RNG to grant me such.

I still like the half-orc warrior challenge. So far the first attempt has been the most succesful - all others die at about Clev 10 / Dlev 6 to a group of monsters (the latest attempt ran into a group of halforcs when at Clev7.
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Old October 28, 2017, 18:35   #15
bdgamer
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I did this exercise just now, and was going very well all the way down to 20. I had still not gotten any truly good damage output, and ate it once I ran into a ghoul thinking that I had free action when I really didn't. oops.
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Old October 28, 2017, 18:52   #16
Pete Mack
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@bdgamer--
Yeah, that will happen sometimes, especially before you really learn all the early monsters with paralyzing attacks. Damage will eventually come--usually in an a huge shift where suddenly everything native is easy to kill. (You'll find a *thanc, say, or Careth Asdraig, or a decent ego bow.)
After running these two characters back to back, I think the rogue was a little easier. Yeah, you have to be picky about fights, but detection makes that easy. With the warrior, I had to carry staffs of Detect Evil. I neglected to show all the supplies I was carrying at the end of the demo. It was something like:
?17 PD
? 18 CSW+CCW
4 !Hero
_Teleport (warrior)
_Detect Evil (warrior only)
2 _Mapping (warrior; rogue hadn't recalled since DL 8 or so)
Rod of Light
2 Scrolls of Teleport (rogue)
2 rods of frost bolts (rogue)
1 wand of frost bolts(warrior)
Light activation (warrior)
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Old October 28, 2017, 22:57   #17
Diogenes
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This is my latest entry for the "Rogue" newbie excercise. THe choice for Elf instead of HE was intentional - before this I had tried an HE Rogue, but the XP penalty (and the apparent lack of HP for that particular try) made it a short but tedious affair.

I'm not sure if I should dive now... I usually stayed at these DLevs for a long time hoping to find !Stat.

No great weapon yet, nice defenses tho (if I may say so).
Attached Files
File Type: txt Elrond.txt (9.8 KB, 20 views)
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Old October 28, 2017, 23:47   #18
Pete Mack
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Diogenes: if you dive fast, EXP doesn't matter nearly so much, as monsters have exponentially more HP. Yeah, you'll be a few levels behind a weaker race, but you'll still be stronger overall.
!stat will come at all levels below 30, and !Aug starts showing up at DL 50. But if you're getting stat potions, the exercise is already done...
If you want to continue the exercise, keep diving. But diving past DL 40 isn't really a "newbie" exercise. More "intermediate". But there's nothing particularly special about stat gain. You can do it throughout the dungeon, and it does go faster with more vaults (and more !Augmentation.) The big issues become damage and speed, not so much individual stats (except to some extent CON.) You can survive deep with surprisingly weak characters, so long as you play with sufficient paranoia.
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Old October 29, 2017, 00:21   #19
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Ok, I did it again, 58 minutes, and am down at DL20 at CL17, with a handful of goodies that should set me up fairly well at this level and moving forward. There are some things that I would really like to have at this point, but definitely can't complain.

Code:
  [Angband 4.1.0 Character Dump]

 Name   Nennhil XIII Age            128          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   High-Elf     Height        8'4"   STR:     18  +1  +0  +0  18/10
 Class  Rogue        Weight    14st 5lb   INT:     10  +3  +1  +1     15
 Title  Robber       Turns used:          WIS:     10  -1  -3  +1      7
 HP     145/145      Game        173775   DEX:     16  +3  +3  +0  18/40
 SP     16/16        Standard     17425   CON:     10  +1  -1  +0     10
                     Resting       5959

 Level                 17    Armor      [24,+34]    Saving Throw     65%
 Cur Exp             5721                           Stealth    Very Good
 Max Exp             5721    Melee        1d3,+8    Disarm - phys.   83%
 Adv Exp             6525    To-hit        46,+5    Disarm - magic   81%
                             Blows      2.7/turn    Magic Devices     71
 Gold               10432                           Searching        57%
 Burden           59.4 lb    Shoot to-dam    +10    Infravision    40 ft
 Overweight      -72.5 lb    To-hit       47,+18    Speed         Normal
 Max Depth    1000' (L20)    Shots        1/turn

 You are the only child of a Telerin Ranger.  You have light blue eyes,
 straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:..?.?........ Nexus:..?.?........
rElec:............. Nethr:..?.?........
rFire:........+.... Chaos:..?.?........
rCold:..?.?........ Disen:..?.?........
rPois:............. pFear:.............
rLite:............+ pBlnd:.............
rDark:..?.?........ pConf:..?.?........
Sound:..?.?........ pStun:..?.?........
Shard:..?.?........ HLife:..?.?........

Regen:............. Stea.:.............
  ESP:+............ Sear.:.............
Invis:............+ Infra:............+
FrAct:..........+.. Tunn.:.............
Feath:..?.?........ Speed:.............
S.Dig:............. Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............
Aggrv:............. Light:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Whip of *Slay Animal* (1d3) (+2,+6) <+1>
     Found lying on the floor at 600 feet (level 12)
     
     +1 intelligence.
     Slays animals.
     Grants telepathy.  
     
     Combat info:
     2.7 blows/round.
     With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 3.0 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 3.0 blows
     Average damage/round: 33.7 vs. animals, and 27.9 vs. others.
     
b) a Sling of Accuracy (x2) (+15,+10)
     Found lying on the floor at 50 feet (level 1)
     
c) a Pearl Ring {tried, ??}
     Found lying on the floor at 850 feet (level 17)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
d) a Ring of Protection [+13]
     Dropped by a large kobold at 800 feet (level 16)
     
e) a Carved Oak Amulet {tried, ??}
     Dropped by a large kobold at 850 feet (level 17)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
f) a Lantern (12780 turns)
     Found lying on the floor at 550 feet (level 11)
     
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 2 light.
     
g) Hard Leather Armour (-1) [16,+0]
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 700 feet (level 14)
     
i) a Wicker Shield of Resist Fire [2,+4]
     Dropped by Bullroarer the Hobbit at 900 feet (level 18)
     
     Provides resistance to fire.
     
j) a Metal Cap of Wisdom [3,+5] <+1>
     Found lying on the floor at 600 feet (level 12)
     
     +1 wisdom.
     Sustains wisdom.
     
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Free Action [3,+10]
     Dropped by a bandit at 700 feet (level 14)
     
     Prevents paralysis.  
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {@m1 @G1 @b1}
b) 4 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
c) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
d) 2 Potions of Speed
e) 4 Potions of Heroism
f) 7 Scrolls of Phase Door
g) 2 Scrolls of Magic Mapping
h) a Scroll of Light
i) 7 Scrolls of Word of Recall
j) 4 Scrolls of Blessing
k) a Rod of Light
l) a Wand of Stinking Cloud (10 charges)
m) a Wand of Lightning Balls (7 charges)
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     
n) a Wand of Wonder (20 charges)
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     
o) a Rusty Wand {tried}
p) a Ring of Protection [+10]
     Found lying on the floor at 750 feet (level 15)
     
q) an Azurite Ring {tried, ??}
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 700 feet (level 14)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     Provides resistance to fire.
     
r) a Mithril Amulet {tried, ??}
     Found lying on the floor at 550 feet (level 11)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
s) a Crystal Amulet {tried, ??}
     Dropped by a kobold archer at 850 feet (level 17)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     




  [Character Quiver]

9) 4 Iron Shots (1d4) (+0,+0) {@f9 =g}
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 100 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 25.2.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) a Mithril Amulet {tried, ??}
     Dropped by a dark elven priest at 600 feet (level 12)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
b) a Broad Sword (2d5) (+3,+9) {??}
     Found lying on the floor at 600 feet (level 12)
     
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     Branded with acid.
     
     Combat info:
     1.3 blows/round.
     With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 40.4 vs. creatures not resistant to acid,
     and 23.6 vs. others.
     


[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
       431     50'  Reached level 2
      1771    100'  Reached level 3
      2127    100'  Reached level 4
      2309    150'  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      2779    150'  Reached level 5
      3304    150'  Reached level 6
      4698    250'  Reached level 7
      5689    500'  Reached level 8
      5947    500'  Killed Brodda, the Easterling
      5947    500'  Reached level 9
      6661    550'  Reached level 10
      8557    600'  Reached level 11
      9211    600'  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      9949    600'  Reached level 12
     11032    600'  Reached level 13
     13681    700'  Reached level 14
     14653    800'  Reached level 15
     15808    850'  Reached level 16
     16643    900'  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
     16981    950'  Reached level 17


  [Options]

  [User interface]

Use the roguelike command keyset             : no  (rogue_like_commands)
Use sound                                    : no  (use_sound)
Show damage player deals to monsters         : no  (show_damage)
Use old target by default                    : no  (use_old_target)
Always pickup items                          : no  (pickup_always)
Always pickup items matching inventory       : no  (pickup_inven)
Show flavors in object descriptions          : no  (show_flavors)
Highlight target with cursor                 : yes (show_target)
Highlight player with cursor between turns   : no  (highlight_player)
Disturb whenever viewable monster moves      : yes (disturb_near)
Show walls as solid blocks                   : no  (solid_walls)
Show walls with shaded background            : no  (hybrid_walls)
Color: Illuminate torchlight in yellow       : no  (view_yellow_light)
Color: Shimmer multi-colored things          : no  (animate_flicker)
Center map continuously                      : no  (center_player)
Color: Show unique monsters in purple        : yes (purple_uniques)
Automatically clear '-more-' prompts         : no  (auto_more)
Color: Player color indicates % hit points   : yes (hp_changes_color)
Allow mouse clicks to move the player        : yes (mouse_movement)
Notify on object recharge                    : no  (notify_recharge)

  [Birth]

Generate a new, random artifact set          : yes (birth_randarts)
Generate connected stairs                    : yes (birth_connect_stairs)
Force player descent (never make up stairs)  : no  (birth_force_descend)
Word of Recall has no effect                 : no  (birth_no_recall)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (birth_no_artifacts)
Stack objects on the floor                   : yes (birth_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (birth_lose_arts)
Show level feelings                          : yes (birth_feelings)
Increase gold drops but disable selling      : yes (birth_no_selling)
Start with a kit of useful gear              : yes (birth_start_kit)
Monsters learn from their mistakes           : no  (birth_ai_learn)
Know all runes on birth                      : no  (birth_know_runes)
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Old October 29, 2017, 02:48   #20
Pete Mack
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ESP is sweet, though it's too bad you haven't found a swap weapon yet. I continued the game I was playing, since it's a shame to quit with a nice weapon like Eorlingas (as well as Careth Asdraig.) Didn't get ESP (amulet) til DL 53 (or 52, if you count finding Beruthiel.) I was able to balance Constitution a bit with a couple potions of toughness.
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