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Old February 8, 2013, 14:21   #81
Psi
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Originally Posted by half View Post
I really like your idea of having a few sample characters that start with an interesting and sensible stat choice and experience investment. The idea of having the default of the main menu change is good too. We wanted to get new players to try the tutorial as we think it is a great way to learn the game, but this could get put out of the way after that. Congratulations on surviving the tutorial -- the fire drake is *very* out of depth so it is tricky, but did you know that the game also tracks whether you have killed the fire drake. It is possible, but very tough (and inspired by Powder's tutorial). It is probably an exercise in frustration to try it until you have more experience with the ins and outs of the game though.
Hi half - having read the above, I just went back through the tutorial and killed the fire drake. In what way does the game track it - or is it just the message about finishing the tutorial in fine form?
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Old February 8, 2013, 14:29   #82
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Originally Posted by Darren Grey View Post
If the story is meant to be one of an escaped thrall, it would be nice to see this reflected a bit more in the gameplay. Escaped thrall certainly makes some sense; you manage by cunning to get out of your prison and reach the terrible gates
If we go this route, call @ "BJ Blackowitz" by default, and have orcs scream "mein leiben" when you slay them
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Old February 8, 2013, 15:07   #83
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You are wrong!
Aha! I'm glad I professed my probable ignorance in advance I fully concede. And from your other comments it seems there is much more weapon variety than I have encountered.

This possibly ties in with my previous comments on how there isn't much choice at the start of the game. The guaranteed same sword each game perhaps makes this worse, as it leads to very samey starting gameplay.
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Old February 9, 2013, 11:34   #84
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Hi half - having read the above, I just went back through the tutorial and killed the fire drake. In what way does the game track it - or is it just the message about finishing the tutorial in fine form?
Yeah, that's all (at the moment). Good work though!
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Old September 7, 2013, 10:20   #85
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Hullo all. I'm not normally a *band fan, but Sil rather caught my fancy. Andrew Doull and I have just covered it on Roguelike Radio:

http://www.roguelikeradio.com/2013/0...de-59-sil.html

I wasn't all positive about the game, as there are a number of things I didn't like about the way combat is handled, but overall I am hugely impressed with the design focus. I'd like to get into the game more and cover it in more depth in a later episode. I'd be keen to hear some counter-points from veteran players, and maybe details of important areas where we've missed out.
Yeah, the podcast was a bit of an abortion. I like roguelikes as much as the next guy. Probably more, I dare say, by any objective measure.

Darren, you look at angband with scorn. I appreciate and sometimes enjoy your podcast (which is to say I listen to an episode once in a while), but I never get the strong impression that you get roguelikes. You have specific tastes in computer games, but your tastes merely overlap with roguelikes.

The ADOM thing? ADOM is a decent enough roguelike game combined with a Dungeons and Dragons module. It's an adventure game as much as it is a roguelike.

You don't get the difference. Roguelikes are NEVER about story. They are ALWAYS about mechanics.

And dice rolls.

There is objective evidence of this.

There's a reason Blizzard North has made millionaires of lots of game designers and programmers.

It's not because they modeled their games after what you like.
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Old September 7, 2013, 12:05   #86
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Roguelikes are NEVER about story. They are ALWAYS about mechanics.

And dice rolls.

There is objective evidence of this.
Hi BlueFish, I understand that you didn't like the podcast, but this bit of your reply seems pretty controversial to me. To start I would have said that Sil was, to a significant degree, about the story (as well as the mechanics). And I'm not sure how you can claim objective evidence for the meaning of the term.
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Old September 7, 2013, 12:29   #87
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Hi, Scatha. I think there's a big difference between Sil's story, which is really a context borrowed entirely from Tolkein, and ADOM's novel story, which is a plot the player journeys through a la an adventure game, complete with new geographical locations and an evolving and dictated narrative. To the extent that "adventure game" means anything, ADOM has those elements, and Sil has virtually none of them. ADOM is a hybrid game and not a pure roguelike.

I totally get that people like that. For similar reasons, CRPGs are judged based on the quality of their story, while the mechanics are an afterthought. (Indeed fighting, in which mechanics are most easily expressed, is something to be avoided through narrative.) I like to keep roguelikes distinct from that, because that is the origin of the genre, and what people originally liked about the genre. And it's not a trivial old fashioned taste. It projects very clearly to Diablo and all its mega popularity amongst poeple who would never consider playing a turn based ascii game. The projections of something like ADOM (or TOME for that matter) into anything commercial (which is about as close as we can come to objective popularity) are far less impressive.

I remember how everybody loved Planescape Torment. What a story. Those who questioned whether it was actually a fun game were scorned.

It was a commercial failure, and I think for good reason.

CRPG and adventure game stories top out at the level of young adult fiction. The art I appreciate in games is in the mechanics (or in the case of adventure games, the puzzles, and how they blend with the story). Sil's story is a great piece of art, but Sil players absorbed that story years before they started playing the game.
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Old September 8, 2013, 03:40   #88
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You should listen to our episode on Elitism

Roguelikes come in many flavours. Just because you don't like certain aspects in certain games doesn't mean they're not part of the genre. It just means they're not part of what you like.

I used to joke about Angband being bad to tease Andrew, but I don't really hate it. It's not my sort of roguelike, especially not these days, but if it had caught me at the right time I'm sure I would have loved it. Sil is much much much better, and I find it a shame that few people have heard of it in comparison to Angband.
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Old September 9, 2013, 08:40   #89
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sorry didn't mean to post that

Last edited by BlueFish; September 9, 2013 at 09:16.
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Old September 9, 2013, 08:46   #90
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I did listen to the whole podcast, by the way. Thank you.

The most prominent point: you flail away against the lexical implications of the title of your podcast: "Roguelike radio". You hate the fact that "Roguelike" means something.

I think you should consider how that word and its *meaning* helps people to decide whether to listen to your podcast.

Don't dismiss it.

Last edited by BlueFish; September 9, 2013 at 09:17.
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