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Old October 18, 2016, 07:11   #1
Pete Mack
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How many heals necessary to kill M and S?

Looking thru old winner posts, I see that I've used anything from 2 heals, 1 *heal* and half a dozen CCW (back in 3.1 days when CCW was overpowered) to 6 heals and 3 *heals*. Other posts I did not inscribe potion counts so can't be sure. I am wondering what the expected and worst case counts are, and how many are needed for S. I suspect I use more for S because I spend no time shooting from a distance to save on Banishment and Destruction scrolls.
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Old October 18, 2016, 07:47   #2
dos350
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hey , literally from memory alot, back when i last won the game i believe max stack size was honestly 99? god i used alot of potions!!!
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Old October 18, 2016, 16:16   #3
Ingwe Ingweron
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It depends. Class, race, equipment, experience level, hit points, armor class, damage dealing, speed, terrain, luck... there are so many factors that can impact how much and how often @ needs to heal. The lowest number of heals I've had is Zero, but that was with perfect terrain. The highest, I don't know, quite a lot really. Going after Morgoth with a low experience level, low hit point @, I had to use quite a lot of consumables to win.
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Old October 18, 2016, 16:24   #4
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Yep. Primary factors include how quickly you can damage Morgoth, whether you're fighting him in melee vs. at range (melee of course needs more heals), and luck. If Morgoth spends all his turns moving towards you instead of casting spells, then you could potentially take zero damage over the course of the fight -- and with proper terrain setup this isn't as farfetched as you might think. On the other hand, if he chooses to sit at range and spam manastorm, then you'd better have a lot of potions.
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Old October 20, 2016, 20:05   #5
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For me, my shopping list is:

20 healing
10 *healing*
as many Life as I find
10 Banishment
10 Mass Banishment
5 *Destruction*

Way more than I'll need, but it's easy to remember! ;-)
Also, I play slowly enough (c.100k turns) that I never struggle to get there, or thereabouts.

EDIT: Obviously, I struggle to get to endgame, but when I do I've usually got most of the above list sitting naturally at home. I never use the above in the dungeon, except !Healing, and then only when I've got 20 safely tucked away at home. So basically, I don't scum for consumables. I sure would if I was trying to win in under 75k turns. But I don't do that.
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Old October 22, 2016, 04:49   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB View Post
For me, my shopping list is:

20 healing
10 *healing*
as many Life as I find
10 Banishment
10 Mass Banishment
5 *Destruction*

Way more than I'll need, but it's easy to remember! ;-)
Also, I play slowly enough (c.100k turns) that I never struggle to get there, or thereabouts.

EDIT: Obviously, I struggle to get to endgame, but when I do I've usually got most of the above list sitting naturally at home. I never use the above in the dungeon, except !Healing, and then only when I've got 20 safely tucked away at home. So basically, I don't scum for consumables. I sure would if I was trying to win in under 75k turns. But I don't do that.
This is exactly what I was looking for, the Morgoth shopping list! Just took out Sauron for the first time and now I'm gearing up for a tilt at the big guy himself.
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Old October 22, 2016, 04:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
It depends. Class, race, equipment, experience level, hit points, armor class, damage dealing, speed, terrain, luck... there are so many factors that can impact how much and how often @ needs to heal. The lowest number of heals I've had is Zero, but that was with perfect terrain. The highest, I don't know, quite a lot really. Going after Morgoth with a low experience level, low hit point @, I had to use quite a lot of consumables to win.
Could you please define perfect terrain?
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Old October 22, 2016, 06:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiodobbio View Post
Could you please define perfect terrain?
Depends on how you approach the fight. With some cleverness, you can hockey-stick Morgoth to death without him getting a single turn to attack you with -- though this is a lot easier in variants that have controlled teleport abilities. Usually you want terrain that limits Morgoth's ability to overwhelm you with summons, as that's his primary means of putting you in jeopardy. Generally that means either a Destructed zone, or a vault with permanent walls close together.
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Old October 22, 2016, 07:18   #9
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That's easily twice as much banishment as you really need, and you can get by with less heal and *heal too. I am actually wondering how much you need in a basic standup fight.
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Old October 22, 2016, 08:37   #10
Ingwe Ingweron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiodobbio View Post
Could you please define perfect terrain?
What Derakon said.
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― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
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