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Old Today, 04:45   #271
Estie
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I actually tried this; I unsquelched search jewelry, found an amulet of searching +3, inscribed it and my current amulet with @w1, mapped s -> w1 and carried the amulet along in my inventory. Eventually opportunity arose when Harrowen created traps. After I killed him, I swapped amulets a couple times in the room with the new traps, but alas, no new traps became visible.

Bit of a waste of time, but in principle it works.
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Old Today, 05:34   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I actually tried this; I unsquelched search jewelry, found an amulet of searching +3, inscribed it and my current amulet with @w1, mapped s -> w1 and carried the amulet along in my inventory. Eventually opportunity arose when Harrowen created traps. After I killed him, I swapped amulets a couple times in the room with the new traps, but alas, no new traps became visible.

Bit of a waste of time, but in principle it works.
Doesn't work in current master, unless you step out of LoS and then back in. I've just finished making it so it will work; will be in the next build.
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Old Today, 06:28   #273
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New build is up on the nightlies page with the following changes:
  • Correct damage now shows in monster spell descriptions (notably cause mortal wounds)
  • Quiver header shows numbers for slots instead of letters
  • Bailing out of stepping into lava no longer means you learn the RFire rune
  • Wielding (or taking off) gear leads to a check for if any new traps are detectable
  • All traps have a 1/3 chance to be destroyed on activating

There was also some removal of unnecessary code.
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Old Today, 09:37   #274
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post

(...) I think the correct way to deal with it in the current setting is for the player's field of view to be re-scanned when they change their equipment.
I knew it! You really have a piece of gum stuck under that 's' key, don't you?

But that would definitely be an improvement, to let a change in search skill trigger a re-scan.
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Old Today, 09:49   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
New build is up on the nightlies page with the following changes:
  • (...)
  • Wielding (or taking off) gear leads to a check for if any new traps are detectable
    (...)
Wow. A Maintainer of Lightning. I wish I were so speedy...

Well, here's another bug then (in the next post)

Last edited by dreembeard; Today at 10:08. Reason: missing endquote
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Old Today, 10:02   #276
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Exclamation randomization of object kind flags after editing object.txt

After editing gamedata/object.txt, I loaded a savefile of a char in town. He immediately dropped some inventory (suddenly) labeled with "ignore", and it turned out that several flavors of known items were now unknown, and lots of flavors of never seen items were known. In other words, it looked like the ignore and aware flags in object_kind info were randomly redefined.

I vaguely recall that I experienced sudden changes in aware flag settings before, while testing some things with another character in debug mode. I did not pay much attention to it, since it had already been reported that there was a bug in the debug menu (ah, that sounds poetic ).
But now it occurred during normal gameplay.

In the game modding section of the online help, there's a warning that you may destroy savefile compatibility if you add or delete objects to/from object.txt. But I did not do that. The edits only involved changes in the alloc:, pile:, and msg: lines (of food items). I did comment out a few pile: lines.
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Old Today, 10:07   #277
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Quote:
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OK, that figures. Used to be that the teleport code randomised distances in a fairly hidden way - now we have a chance to do it explicitly. How about
  • ?Phase - 5+d5
  • ?Teleport - 50+d50
  • _Teleport - 50+d50
  • Spell Phase - 5+d5
  • Spell Teleport - 2*level + d(level)
  • Spell Portal - level + d(level)
Seems fine for phase and teleport items. For teleport spells, I'd add a minimum distance for low level characters so Teleport and Portal are still better than Phase. And increase max distance, so high level characters get a distance similar to the old values of level*3 (Portal) and level*5 (Mage Teleport -- Priest teleport with x8 multiplier was silly). Something like:
- teleport: 10 + 2 * level + d(2 * level)
- portal: 5 + 3 * level / 2 + d(3 * level / 2)
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Old Today, 10:23   #278
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Originally Posted by dreembeard View Post
Hi Gwarl,

I presume that with "trap-associated tedium" you mean the trap detection on the green band. I do acknowledge that a system like the one you proposed gets rid of such tedium without sacrificing traps. I just don't believe in the necessity to give up search. And I understood that you and other posters on the forum did. Based on what experience? Your search for hidden doors? For at least since vanilla 3.0, I don't believe I ever searched for traps (other than on chests). Very now and then in the early game perhaps. But in my recollection, that was hardly gamewrecking.

Because of my dislike of the green-band routine, I have been pondering about detectionless perception+searching for traps for my own (future) variant. And I think that what I have in mind (basically probabilistic short-range perception depending on distance plus search that is simply boosted perception) has a good chance of being workable, IF the location of traps can be made so that players gradually learn where to expect them. Which is yet to be seen of course; the proof is in the pudding. But that is what I had in mind.

And then I come across the new trap spotting system in V 4.1.0, from which search is completely removed. Without much explanation. At least not in the changes.txt file. And up to this point, all I have seen in the forum discussion are arguments that lay down a conviction that search is bad. Without proof or reference to concrete experiences. Moreover, without any hint that a system based on perception+search has ever been tried out. And the phrasing of the "problem with search" refers to classic gametheoretic optimaility. Which, in my conviction (and that of many others) only applies to very constrained games, which angband is clearly not.
Yes, it's a matter of opinion.

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They 'll drop a scroll on the tile, and as they see it float sideways to a neighboring one, they will retreat in the hope that they find a wand of stone-to-mud to bypass the trap that is apparently there.
To my mind this is an exploit of game mechanics. Way back when only a single object could appear on each tile and apparently traps were included here, and then eventually someone let items stack on a single tile, but traps were still treated differently. IMO the fix is to let items appear on trap tiles, but this introduces the problem of what symbol to use to inform the player of a trap and a pile of items on the same square.

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Heck, even deterministic perception as it is now employed in vanilla would be significantly better with search than without , if you define search as slightly boosted perception (which seems realistic). Because that brings player savviness back into the equation. In such a system, searching twice is still pointless, but searching once, at the right spot, may pay off. That does mean that it should also cost something., so let it slow you down for 1+d2 turns.
Traps nearly always appear now where doors would have been before. If you're in a t-junction it's quite likely that's a trap. If anything trap placement has become vastly more predictable since the trap changes came in.

Honestly doing away with searching has been a huge relief to me. When I went from playing 4.0.5 to playing with the new traps I hardly noticed the difference, but when I tried playing another game of 4.0.5 it was awful.

Traps actually seem to matter more now, previously one would search then disarm, I actually find myself looking for alternate routes now or considering whether that is the corridor I want to spend my time exploring in the infinite dungeon.

I will also note that rods and wands of disable trap exist and can presumably be used on undetected traps if the plyaer notices themselves in a corridor junction without doors.

Perhaps there is a time in your characters life where they can't properly deal with a trap because they don't have the class skills or devices to deal with it. I'd argue that's a good thing.
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Old Today, 13:08   #279
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[*]Bailing out of stepping into lava no longer means you learn the RFire rune
Speaking of bailing out, I just bailed out of quaffing an unidentified potion at the "Direction?" prompt and didn't learn its identification. I think either I should learn that it's !Dragon's Breath (what other potion requires a direction?) or I shouldn't be allowed to bail out.
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Old Today, 13:44   #280
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speaking of Teleport Self;

TS works by sending you X distance away from your current location, where X is based on your CL.

Now, as i understand it, this means that the higher X, the better. However, when you are CL50, the spell tends to cycle you through a set number of teleport results.

I assume this is because the X value exceeds [a parameter i'm not sure of] and therefore only so many spots in the map qualify. However, when you are lower level, you actually teleport a smaller X away, thus making the spell BETTER when your CL is lower.
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