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Old January 14, 2016, 21:14   #11
Derakon
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Don't expect that to last
Why do you think I said that in the first place?
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Old January 14, 2016, 21:48   #12
Estie
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Assuming Ringil allows you to equip a +15 damage ring, youd get an increase of 15 x 5 = 75, putting Ringil on par with Wrath. Which creates the group of "outstanding four" of Wrath Pain Aule and Ringil - either is sufficient for the task and neither is significantly superior.

Deathwreaker, the only significantly better weapon, would be used only for the last 2 battles, when vault-clearing is over.
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Old January 14, 2016, 22:37   #13
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
Deathwreaker, the only significantly better weapon, would be used only for the last 2 battles, when vault-clearing is over.
If I find Deathwreaker or Doomcaller, I'm using them pretty much regardless of anything else because they're so rare. Screw optimal play.
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Old January 14, 2016, 23:15   #14
Estie
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
If I find Deathwreaker or Doomcaller, I'm using them pretty much regardless of anything else because they're so rare. Screw optimal play.
You need to play more :P
But then, I would have quit long ago without randarts.
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Old January 14, 2016, 23:27   #15
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Originally Posted by Estie View Post
You need to play more :P
But then, I would have quit long ago without randarts.
Well okay, there is a point. If I find Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, then something has gone desperately wrong with the RNG.

More seriously though, my games tend to end as soon as I hit the power threshold for Morgoth (that is, I don't hang around to kill uniques or gain equipment), so I spend relatively little time each game at the depths where the uber-items can plausibly be generated. I can't remember the last time I found Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, and I think I've only legitimately found the One Ring once.
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Old January 14, 2016, 23:30   #16
Egavactip
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Well okay, there is a point. If I find Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, then something has gone desperately wrong with the RNG.

More seriously though, my games tend to end as soon as I hit the power threshold for Morgoth (that is, I don't hang around to kill uniques or gain equipment), so I spend relatively little time each game at the depths where the uber-items can plausibly be generated. I can't remember the last time I found Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, and I think I've only legitimately found the One Ring once.
It found you.
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Old January 15, 2016, 03:47   #17
Gram
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OK, here's an update. I enchanted all the artifacts up to (+14,+14), making a noticeable difference for Pain (more crits), Sting and other "midgame" +blows arts, and many aggravating weapons. I'm including damage against evil demons at equal weight and also replacing undead with evil undead=max(undead,evil). Also, I created a MoD of extra attacks +2, which as people have already said is the highest pure damage non-aggravating melee weapon.
Code:
Name	Base	Evil	EvUnd	EvDmn	Brand	Naive avg
Pain	591	591	591	591	591	591
Aule	440	540	641	641	641	580.6
Wrath	430	522	794	522	612	576
Ringil	430	498	566	702	566	552.4
Eonwe	420	493	566	713	566	551.6
Aiglos	414	472	643	472	529	506
Eorling	455	538	538	538	455	504.8
Sting	462	493	524	493	462	486.8
Aglaran	474	474	474	474	474	474
Thunder	434	434	434	434	602	467.6
Durin	416	416	416	532	532	462.4
Crisdur	405	476	546	476	405	461.6
Dagmor	448	448	448	448	510	460.4
Eowyn	388	445	614	445	388	456
Ulmo	447	447	447	447	447	447
Erebor	401	401	401	492	492	437.4
Fundin	392	448	504	448	392	436.8
Anduril	376	426	476	426	476	436
Careth	433	433	433	433	433	433
Balli	398	398	398	552	398	428.8
Orome	379	379	379	379	532	409.6
Nain	400	400	400	400	400	400

Name	Base	Evil	EvUnd	EvDmn	Brand	Naive Avg
Grond	699	1022	1988	1988	699	1279.2
Deathwr	555	753	1349	753	952	872.4
Doomcal	486	590	590	693	693	610.4
Zarcuth	448	531	614	614	614	564.2
Anguire	430	470	470	511	511	478.4
Calris	405	476	476	546	405	461.6
Melkor	417	417	417	417	578	449.2
Gothmog	391	391	391	391	524	417.6

Name								Base	Evil	EvUnd	EvDmn	Brand	Naive Avg
Mace of Disruption of Extra Attacks (5d8) (+14,+16) <+2>	649	649	1042	649	649	727.6
Mace of Disruption (Holy Avenger) (5d8) (+16,+20) [+3] <+1>	491	633	774	774	491	632.6
Mace of Disruption of Extra Attacks (5d8) (+16,+15) <+1>	551	551	891	551	551	619
Scythe of Slicing of Extra Attacks (8d4) (+17,+14) <+2>		591	591	591	591	591	591
Mace of Disruption of *Slay Evil* (5d8) (+13,+15) <+1>		457	598	739	598	457	569.8
Blade of Chaos of Extra Attacks (6d5) (+17,+14) <+2>		568	568	568	568	568	568
Scythe of Slicing (Holy Avenger) (8d4) (+17,+15) [+2] <+4>	428	546	664	664	428	546
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Old January 15, 2016, 07:03   #18
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Slay dragon is never a priority for me; dragons are usually pretty easy kills. I don't think I've ever been scared of a dragon that wasn't Kavlax or massively out of depth. Which is kind of a shame, really.
There is a long period where dragons don't pose a threat, but once you enter Law Dragon -depths things change. Then you have dragon explosions just like you might get Demon explosions. Undeads are not that bad IMO, very few of them summon stuff, so it usually is one on one fight (except when there is a graveyard).

Dragon is maybe par with Demon, Undead a bit less to me (Undeads are usually not worth the fight).
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Old January 15, 2016, 12:05   #19
Estie
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Well okay, there is a point. If I find Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, then something has gone desperately wrong with the RNG.

More seriously though, my games tend to end as soon as I hit the power threshold for Morgoth (that is, I don't hang around to kill uniques or gain equipment), so I spend relatively little time each game at the depths where the uber-items can plausibly be generated. I can't remember the last time I found Doomcaller or Deathwreaker, and I think I've only legitimately found the One Ring once.
I dont understand the fascination with Doomcaller. Damage wise its on par with the top 4, if that, but it aggravates. So the only time I would be tempted to use it is when a) I find it (very rare indeed) and b) I dont have any of the top 4 weapons nor a suitable ego, which is even rarer.
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Old January 15, 2016, 15:21   #20
Timo Pietilš
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I dont understand the fascination with Doomcaller. Damage wise its on par with the top 4, if that, but it aggravates.
It is a bit higher than top 4 non-aggravating weapons, but I agree it isn't that good just for damage. I think the main fascination comes from the good old times:

Many new high-dice weapons have been introduced, many of the old ones boosted, very many got better by fractional blows (especially MoD:s) and ESP has got way more common outside of headgear. Wrath especially has got a huge boost by lighter weight and bigger dice.

One of my favorites that is IMO undervalued is Thunderfist. It has double-brand of fire and elec and barring very few uniques and almost worthless normal monsters almost none of those resist both, and it gives boost to STR and CON. It might not be one of the very top and it is not good against Morgoth or Sauron, but because of those stat-boosts it is very good mid-game weapon.
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