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Old November 8, 2009, 23:21   #1
miyazaki
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ID on pick-up?

I am playing v1702 today, to try out the new randarts. I am using a gnome ranger and when I pick up a wand or staff, it is automatically ID'ed within a turn or two. Is this supposed to happen? I don't like it.
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Old November 8, 2009, 23:49   #2
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This was introduced a few months ago to make some of the more unpopular races more interesting. Gnomes will auto-id devices, hobbits will auto-id mushrooms, and dwarves can see nearby ore veins. I think a couple other changes were made regarding infravision and an innate digging bonus, but I'm not sure who got those.

Here's the changeset on trac: http://trac.rephial.org/changeset/1610
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Old November 9, 2009, 00:28   #3
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I don't like it--seems silly. They ID staves and wands but not rods? They already have innate free action--one of the best starting resistances, plus low experience requirements and good device use. They were already a well-balanced race before adding this auto-ID; I think this change is unnecessary. It's pandering to the masses...
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Old November 9, 2009, 16:37   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyazaki View Post
I don't like it--seems silly. They ID staves and wands but not rods? They already have innate free action--one of the best starting resistances, plus low experience requirements and good device use. They were already a well-balanced race before adding this auto-ID; I think this change is unnecessary. It's pandering to the masses...
I'm not sure it's pandering per se. As far as I know, the changes are designed to reduce the number of identify scrolls that are used throughout the game, make recalling to town less frequent, and make it easier for people to identify items through other means (by use, by race, by observed effects, etc).

This isn't intended to persuade you that it's good, but to try to explain the changes.
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Old November 10, 2009, 03:31   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m View Post
I'm not sure it's pandering per se. As far as I know, the changes are designed to reduce the number of identify scrolls that are used throughout the game, make recalling to town less frequent, and make it easier for people to identify items through other means (by use, by race, by observed effects, etc).

This isn't intended to persuade you that it's good, but to try to explain the changes.
I really like the new ID-by-use system. My last winner was an ironman game that has totally changed my gameplay. I am fully in favor of changes that encourage players to stay in the dungeon longer and recall less frequently.

I think I would like the change more if it was applied across all the races. Maybe elves should auto-ID armour of elvenkind; dunedan auto-ID weapons of westernesse? Gameplay changes should be internally consistant.
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Old November 10, 2009, 04:18   #6
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I like ID by use, but at the same time, I think that's it's too quick n' easy in it's current implementation. I'm still looking for some class-level dependent variation.
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Old November 10, 2009, 07:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miyazaki View Post
I really like the new ID-by-use system. My last winner was an ironman game that has totally changed my gameplay. I am fully in favor of changes that encourage players to stay in the dungeon longer and recall less frequently.

I think I would like the change more if it was applied across all the races. Maybe elves should auto-ID armour of elvenkind; dunedan auto-ID weapons of westernesse? Gameplay changes should be internally consistant.
There are really two separate things going on here:
- the racial patch (drafted by me, improved by Takkaria)
- the ID by use system (a more important change, I think this is all Takkaria's work but am happy to be corrected).

Could easily have had one of these but not the other.

As the racial patch stands, gnomes ID wands/rods and hobbits ID mushrooms. In an earlier draft, dwarves ID hard armour and elves ID shooters. Those last two changes were thought to be unbalancing.

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Old November 10, 2009, 18:22   #8
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Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
- the ID by use system (a more important change, I think this is all Takkaria's work but am happy to be corrected).
I believe it is fair to say that I am the primary force behind ID by use.
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Old November 10, 2009, 18:42   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
There are really two separate things going on here:
- the racial patch (drafted by me, improved by Takkaria)
- the ID by use system (a more important change, I think this is all Takkaria's work but am happy to be corrected).

Could easily have had one of these but not the other.

As the racial patch stands, gnomes ID wands/rods and hobbits ID mushrooms. In an earlier draft, dwarves ID hard armour and elves ID shooters. Those last two changes were thought to be unbalancing.

A.
Small point: the patch is IDing wands & staves right now.

I think that introducing a race that IDs magical devices is far more unbalancing than having races ID weapons or armour, simply because of pseudo-ID. It takes a few turns but pseudo-ID will tell any player whether armour is safe to equip or not, and once equipped, the player knows whether to use an ?identify on it. There is no method like this for magical devices. There is always a cost to ID a magical device: the risk of equipping/using, the cost of ?identify or the risk of selling (and not being able buy it back).

Mushrooms are such a minor part of the game that auto-ID is not unbalancing. I suggest that an equivalent for gnomes could be auto_ID of rods (which rarely have negative effects) but can be extremely useful. This removes the annoyance of figuring out what they do, without eliminating any major risk for them.
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Old November 10, 2009, 20:50   #10
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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
I believe it is fair to say that I am the primary force behind ID by use.
Sounds right, apologies for my misattribution first time round.

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