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Old June 23, 2010, 15:21   #1
Zababa
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Why are Lanterns identified?

I always thought that a lantern, which I perceive through detect treasure could be any of various types. Maybe a Lantern of Brightness or an Everburning one, but no, it was just the usual one. It could not be even identified any further.

I think it would be more fun when you see a lantern you don't know what is it going to be. I somehow hope there are many different lantern types, some possibly grant resistance to blindness, or see invisible, enhance infravision, grant telepathy, etc. but you just have to check yourself and identify the lantern first.

Or is it the case that there are just three types of lanterns and it is not worth to hide the full functionality. If you are lucky to find one, it can be only normal, everburning or one of brightness.
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Old June 23, 2010, 15:29   #2
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I believe the answer is that lanterns have the EASY_KNOW flag so that you can always see how many turns of light they have left; as a side-effect, they're always auto-identified.
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Old June 23, 2010, 16:24   #3
Zikke
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I would think you can see immediately if it's an everburning lantern (there isn't any oil and it's on), or an extra bright lantern. Anything else is a normal lantern. You can see how many turns there are by checking the oil level visually.


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Old June 23, 2010, 16:39   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikke View Post
I would think you can see immediately if it's an everburning lantern (there isn't any oil and it's on), or an extra bright lantern. Anything else is a normal lantern.
Personally I think we should increase the number of lantern ego types and remove the EASY_KNOW flag. With the new ID-by-use code it would still be possible to reveal the pval (the amount of fuel remaining) without revealing the rest of the properties.

I'd also like to create randart lanterns, but that requires some fairly major surgery (http://trac.rephial.org/ticket/1014).
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Old June 23, 2010, 16:53   #5
Derakon
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ToME 2 has a bunch of ego lanterns; from what I recall they included:

* of Brightness
* of the Magi (+INT, SI, FA)
* of the Eagle's Eye (or something like that; activates for magic mapping)
* Dwarven (everburning)
* Feanorian (everburning, +1 radius)

Of course, adding some of these would mean that the phial is suddenly not nearly as interesting any more...
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Old June 23, 2010, 17:57   #6
bron
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As a fan of playing no-artifacts, I would love to see more/better ego lanterns, to help cover more resists/powers. The flip-side should be that such lanterns are not everburning, so if e.g. I want the lantern with rDark, or the one with SI/FA, then I need to worry about the oil. Admittedly, this is not really a problem, unless you are playing ironman. But I think that is as it should be.
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Old June 23, 2010, 18:32   #7
Zababa
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I personally would not mind if there were some everburning lantrens with resistances. They just need to be sufficiently rare.
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Old June 23, 2010, 19:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
ToME 2 has a bunch of ego lanterns; from what I recall they included:

* of Brightness
* of the Magi (+INT, SI, FA)
* of the Eagle's Eye (or something like that; activates for magic mapping)
* Dwarven (everburning)
* Feanorian (everburning, +1 radius)

Of course, adding some of these would mean that the phial is suddenly not nearly as interesting any more...
I think ego lanterns would be very cool.

Give the Phial rDark and maybe also rLight. After all, "near it darkness cannot long endure", right?
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Old June 23, 2010, 19:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hariolor View Post
I think ego lanterns would be very cool.

Give the Phial rDark and maybe also rLight. After all, "near it darkness cannot long endure", right?
Oooh that's a nice idea. Giving the Phial rdark would make for much more interesting randart Phials too. I'll get clobbered by the "making the game easier" crowd, but so what ....
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Old June 23, 2010, 19:30   #10
Derakon
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If we do add more properties to the Phial, then we should push its generation even deeper. Right now there's no reason not to use it when you find it, unless you've only found it after finding another artifact light source. We should be careful about making no-brainer artifacts more powerful.

Likewise, ego-item light sources should come with their own drawbacks, since otherwise they're "free" power boosts (possibly barring the Everburning and of Brightness egos, which are not significantly more powerful than baseline, particularly for Everburning). Off the top of my head:

* Drastically reduce the duration a light source lasts for. Right now I can fit three-four trips to the dungeon into one lantern refuel, which is silly IMO. The only reason I carry lantern oil into the dungeon is to use it as a throwing weapon. Make torches last for 2000 turns, and lanterns have a max fuel capacity of 1500 turns. Or something of that nature. Then fuel becomes a significant worry again...and of course, ironman games get completely screwed over. Oh, well.
* As above, but only do it for ego-items. So if you want the benefits of a light source that lets you see invisible, you have to deal with it burning out quickly.
* Bring in some of those mixed-blessing abilities that have been talked about before. Fire vulnerability, slightly reduced stealth or combat bonuses, reduced infravision (hey, you're standing right next to a big light and heat source), etc.
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