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Old February 22, 2016, 21:34   #1
TJS
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Ungoliant and old tiles

So I was going along nicely with my elf priest, use a scroll of mass banishment on a spiral vault, cast detection, notice that there's only Eol and Baphomet left so use a staff of speed to get over 20 speed and wait to teleport them away and get the loot.

Suddenly:
>Ungoliant, the Unlight breathes poison.
> You die.

Yep he was invisible when I detected since he is a completely black sprite and was in a dark corridor. I also had ESP and didn't see him even as I walked to within 4 squares of him (I think he is detectable by telepathy).

Here's the sad end result:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=18766

I'm probably one of the only people left still using old tiles, but I'm just too used to them now to change.

Another problem with them I've noticed is that the trap detection radius obscures walls as well as floor.
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Old February 22, 2016, 22:00   #2
Derakon
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You should try to keep the "known monsters" list visible at all times. That would have helped in this scenario. Also, I bet that if you wanted to tweak the tile in question so it wasn't all-black, then the devs would be happy to accept the change.

Finally, Ungoliant is female.
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Old February 22, 2016, 23:13   #3
Pete Mack
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-500HP is what I call going out in style. RPois wouldn't have helped
You should be able to change the icon to something more visible (say to Shelob's icon if that works.)
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Old March 1, 2016, 15:23   #4
TJS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
You should try to keep the "known monsters" list visible at all times. That would have helped in this scenario. Also, I bet that if you wanted to tweak the tile in question so it wasn't all-black, then the devs would be happy to accept the change.

Finally, Ungoliant is female.
For some reason I really don't like having multiple windows open, if there is a way of getting the information in the main window then I'd probably use that.
I normally never have this problem and only did here because Ungoliant is completely invisible.

I think this problem is a new one because I've killed her many times in previous versions of the game without this happening. I guess I'm the only person who still uses old tiles so it has remained unnoticed until now.

Quote:
-500HP is what I call going out in style. RPois wouldn't have helped
Yes I was quite pleased it wasn't something like -4HP as that would have been completely lame.

Quote:
You should be able to change the icon to something more visible (say to Shelob's icon if that works.)
Yeah she is going bright purple I think.
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Old March 1, 2016, 16:49   #5
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I once survived an unresisted Ungoliant breath.

I also once did not survive an unresisted Huan cold breath.

I'll also point out that finding Ungoliant on level 34 is broken. The 40 OoD level monsters in vaults is overkill and always has been. It makes large vaults only possible for characters at the end of the game.
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Old March 1, 2016, 16:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I once survived an unresisted Ungoliant breath.

I also once did not survive an unresisted Huan cold breath.

I'll also point out that finding Ungoliant on level 34 is broken. The 40 OoD level monsters in vaults is overkill and always has been. It makes large vaults only possible for characters at the end of the game.
Actually it was level 54 (I was clvl 34).

I really like completely OoD monsters as it makes the vaults seem dangerous and if you clear them it feels like you've actually earned the treasure inside. With teleport other and enough speed you can deal with any OoD monster really.
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Old March 1, 2016, 18:28   #7
Philip
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Having a monster be invisible based on UI is horrible and the tiles should be changed.

Dunno about vaults being too hard, though I think vaults should really be for either powerful characters, or those with very good stealth and an affinity towards mild risks.

In general, it seems wrong to me that you can find way out of depth items but not monsters. I once found a ring of speed dropped by an ordinary troll somewhere in the 20s or 30s. That's further out of depth than it is technically possible for a monster to be, even inside a vault, and I found it more or less just lying around. If we're going to limit out of depth monsters, we should limit out of depth objects too.
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Old March 2, 2016, 15:48   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
Having a monster be invisible based on UI is horrible and the tiles should be changed.

Dunno about vaults being too hard, though I think vaults should really be for either powerful characters, or those with very good stealth and an affinity towards mild risks.

In general, it seems wrong to me that you can find way out of depth items but not monsters. I once found a ring of speed dropped by an ordinary troll somewhere in the 20s or 30s. That's further out of depth than it is technically possible for a monster to be, even inside a vault, and I found it more or less just lying around. If we're going to limit out of depth monsters, we should limit out of depth objects too.
Nah, there's a gameplay difference here. Specifically, you need many good items to win, but you only need one untimely death to...well...die. So in this sense there need not be a limit to how amazing an item you can find, but there does need to be a limit in how deadly a situation you can get yourself into.
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Old March 2, 2016, 17:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Nah, there's a gameplay difference here. Specifically, you need many good items to win, but you only need one untimely death to...well...die. So in this sense there need not be a limit to how amazing an item you can find, but there does need to be a limit in how deadly a situation you can get yourself into.
As long as these super-deadly encounters are suitably rare, I don't have a problem with them. Dying to an improbable unwinnable situation can make for an interesting experience and story; dying that way several times is just frustrating.

I mean, think about it: you'd always remember that one time your character died to an ancient dragon at 800'...but you wouldn't remember it fondly if it happened more than once.
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