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Old October 30, 2017, 04:08   #21
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopTart View Post
Still confused about inferiority of high elves. Wouldn't a level 40 high elf have better stats than say a level 40 human of the same class? And all you have to do is kill twice as many monsters.
You're right, at the same level a high-elf will be strictly better than a human (except for WIS, where they're 1 point poorer). But having to kill twice as many monsters is a pretty substantial burden; it means twice as long in the dungeon, and thus twice as much time for something really bad to happen. More realistically, the way it tends to play out is that at a given point in the game the high-elf will be a level or two behind where the human would be. That means fewer HP/SP and higher failure rates, later access to spells, and a few other minor things.

If you play a high-elf and then play a human, the difference will be pretty stark.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:15   #22
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You have better stats, sure. And a HE character at CL 38 is stronger in melee in any case. It's really only for mage that the HE limitations can be a issue. It takes a loooong time to level up after CL 40 or so. All other classes do just fine taking on M at CL 44 For Mage, it's really nice to have zero-fail on mass banishment.
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Still confused about inferiority of high elves. Wouldn't a level 40 high elf have better stats than say a level 40 human of the same class? And all you have to do is kill twice as many monsters.
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Old October 30, 2017, 06:17   #23
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Derakon: sure. But a HE can cruise faster thru the first 30 levels. It's only towards the end where he bogs down.
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Old October 30, 2017, 09:54   #24
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And it's not twice as many monsters, because those higher base stats and better skills allow you to hunt bigger prey all along the way.
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Old October 30, 2017, 11:40   #25
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i used to play ony HE warriors. Then only Dunedain warriors. Then Dunedain rangers, which can be a bit slow at the start, but become unkillable at high levels, becuase they can melee, they have godlike archery, and can cast spells including CLW, and have very solid stats, including strong CON.
Then i played for fun a half orc Rogue and a Troll mage and i don't want to play anything else
These races are inferior on paper, but practically, they are better.

The troll mage starts with high STR (makes it easy to carry stuff, which is otherwise a bane of ALL mages) and Regen, which means in the early game you will not need to pick between Helm of Regen and Helm of INT, as you will always go with Helm of INT, and that's +2 INT. You lose some SP to having fast SP regen and can even melee a little if necessary. Also, solid HP and you sustain STR.

The Half Orc Rogue has no SP for the first few levels, but can melee reasonably well. rDark means you ignore the blind effect from dark hounds. You will eventually get enough SP to cast the basic spells you need, such as Phase, Detect Object and Detect Monster, which is all you need, and in the endgame you have maxed out stats, so who cares. Lower XP and STR/CON buff are worth the small XP penalty.

Playing HE Mage, i keep thinking "if i was a human, i'd be 2 CL higher, lower spell fail rate, and access to TO sooner".
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Old October 30, 2017, 15:06   #26
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@Sky--try Kobold rogue instead of Half-orc. The melee is worse, but rPoison is better than rDark, and the stealth more than makes up for melee. I like to play HE because it forces diving: without killing high-EXP targets, you cannot advance. But kobold (or gnome) rogue is a classic.
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Old October 31, 2017, 02:29   #27
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@Sky--try Kobold rogue instead of Half-orc. The melee is worse, but rPoison is better than rDark, and the stealth more than makes up for melee. I like to play HE because it forces diving: without killing high-EXP targets, you cannot advance. But kobold (or gnome) rogue is a classic.
I think hobbit rogue is the easiest combo out there. Object detection and the best stealth in the game. Melee is worse than bad, but you don't need to kill anything until you're ready; if it's not generated awake, you can dance circles around it. Avoid all fights and pick up gear and potions, then get deep and level up in no time.
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Old October 31, 2017, 03:09   #28
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You don't need to go all the way to Hobbit. Any of the stealthy races will do, and kobold is a bit better at melee. (INT doesn't matter much until CL 30+ in any case. There are only a handful of low-cost spells you need until then.)
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Old October 31, 2017, 04:26   #29
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i dont think i could cope with having 6 STR.
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Old October 31, 2017, 09:26   #30
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i dont think i could cope with having 6 STR.
I don't see any way I would start a character with only 6 STR. Even a hobbit mage. Kobold rogue starts with -1 STR, 0 INT, +5 DEX, +1 CON, so it's quite easy to get good starting stats. A 16+18/50 or 17+18/40 STR/DEX combo is enough to get 2bpr (if you decide to start with 10 INT and completely forget about spells).
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