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Old November 24, 2017, 20:54   #1
Talharim
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Spoily resources

A long time ago there was a document that stated what you needed to have for each dungeon level. Things like you shouldn't be at *** feet without the basic resists, wounds appear at this level, etc.

Is it still around? It's been a long time and I prefer not to die for obvious reasons that wouldn't happen if my memory wasn't so bad.
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Old November 24, 2017, 21:14   #2
Mondkalb
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The Angband Newbie Guide is still on Thangorodrim: http://thangorodrim.net/

It recommends

Quote:
1000': Free Action, See Invisible
1250': Basic four Resistances
1900': Maxxed Stats, Confusion Resistance, Blindness Resistance
2000': Poison Resistance
2500': Hold Life
2700': Chaos Resistance, Nether Resistance
3000': Permanent and Temporary Speed of +20 or greater
4000': Permanent + Temporary Speed of +30 or greater
4950': As much as you can get. Sustains, Speed, every resistance,
Some things have changed though and it is a bit outdated here and there. (E. g. chaos resistance doesn't cover confusion resistance anymore; free action is still important, but paralyze has a timer now and you may wake up and get a chance to flee.)
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Old November 24, 2017, 22:37   #3
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Don't listen to those depths. They're vaguely representative of the groupthink at the time, which was focused on trying to find a "safe" strategy. But no matter what resists you have, you're never safe; you're better off building a character that can efficiently kill high-value targets, and then learning which monsters that character is better-off avoiding.

To that end, all I'd say you really need is the basic four resists, rPoison, Free Action, See Invisible, Telepathy, 600 HP, at least +20 speed, and as much damage output as you can get. Basically everything else is optional (though it may well be helpful). In fact you can do without rPoison with careful play as well.

Oh, and I wrote the Angband Newbie Guide. I'm sorry.
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Old November 24, 2017, 22:42   #4
Nick
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More recent advice (including from the original author) tends to say continue down regardless of whether you have these things. I would be inclined to use it as a (still fairly accurate) list of when certain things start happening - so 2000' is the time when you can start to see big Poison breathers, for example.
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Old November 24, 2017, 23:16   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Don't listen to those depths. They're vaguely representative of the groupthink at the time, which was focused on trying to find a "safe" strategy. But no matter what resists you have, you're never safe; you're better off building a character that can efficiently kill high-value targets, and then learning which monsters that character is better-off avoiding.

To that end, all I'd say you really need is the basic four resists, rPoison, Free Action, See Invisible, Telepathy, 600 HP, at least +20 speed, and as much damage output as you can get. Basically everything else is optional (though it may well be helpful). In fact you can do without rPoison with careful play as well.

Oh, and I wrote the Angband Newbie Guide. I'm sorry.
No need to be sorry; the only thing that has changed is the small part that says "dont go deeper without". As a reference for what to watch out for, the guide is still useful.

And besides, the diving approach of today is also nothing but groupthink of our time. Laying siege to the dungeon has an appeal all of its own and may make a comeback.
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Old November 25, 2017, 00:19   #6
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No need to be sorry; the only thing that has changed is the small part that says "dont go deeper without". As a reference for what to watch out for, the guide is still useful.

And besides, the diving approach of today is also nothing but groupthink of our time. Laying siege to the dungeon has an appeal all of its own and may make a comeback.

After playing for decades, I still have more fun when I don't dive aggressively and prefer to wipe out entire floors until I feel ready to go deeper. With enough escapes, one can use this play style and find it perfectly enjoyable. It's helpful to know when things like invisible creatures or Drolems are going to start showing up, and generally after like dlvl 60 you might as well be at 98.
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Old November 25, 2017, 02:27   #7
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It's not just the thinking that's changed; Angband itself has changed a lot since the old days, too.

Take the "maxxed stats by 1900'"; for example; that's totally outdated even for someone who still plays a grinding try-to-be-safe game.

It was mostly a precaution against AMHDs and slightly-out-of-depth drolems, dracoliches and dracolisks; dracoliches and dracolisks are now less dangerous and have been moved deeper into the dungeon; and thanks to changes in items, you are far more likely to have rPois than in the old days and pretty much guaranteed to have rBase, which takes care of drolems and AMHDs as well; and you can do big damage to all of the above monsters faster than in the old days, taking the edge out of their breaths. (Not to mention that bigger display areas mean drolems (offscreen) are less likely to be a problem...)

This is not to say that grinding, super-careful players can't have maxxed stats by 1900'; but they certainly don't need that.
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Old November 25, 2017, 02:31   #8
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Stat potions are also less common early and more common late, compared to their old distribution. This makes grinding for stats at 1650' (the old recommended Ideal Grinding Level) an exercise in extreme tedium.
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Old November 25, 2017, 08:44   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Stat potions are also less common early and more common late, compared to their old distribution. This makes grinding for stats at 1650' (the old recommended Ideal Grinding Level) an exercise in extreme tedium.
what is the new sweet spot?
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Old November 25, 2017, 10:51   #10
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There is no real sweet spot, and stats aren't important enough to delay diving anyway. At any point, going deeper will almost certainly let you stat up faster, especially once you factor in monster drops, Augmentation, and *Enlight*. You will also get better stuff, which will temporarily increase your stats far more than potions would. Maxing stats is actually more important late game (though it tends to happen naturally by the time you would worry about it), when it allows you to have multiple stats at cap for the bonuses the high end of the stat distribution gives.
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