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Old March 19, 2019, 16:59   #21
Grotug
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I don't think I've ever used Elvagil.
+1! I think I used it for a few minutes once and then switched to a good dagger or whip. Evalgil is one of the most trash artifact weapons, because it's too heavy when you find it.
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Old March 19, 2019, 18:08   #22
Sphara
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Nice going!

I would buy staff of speed and drop staff of sleep monsters (home or anywhere, its pretty heavy to carry around and not that great). You're carrying a bit too many WoR scrolls for my taste. And speaking of taste, I do eat from the floor in Angband and basically never carry food items after early game. And I only play ironman games. You have a shop full of food from just one recall away. Maybe, if you wanna play it very safe and rest a lot, then carry one or two food items.

You have most resistances covered that Arvedui provides, store it for later. Also remember Rilia dagger has poison resistance. This is very important because you're going to have low hitpoints for a long time. Basilisk is first very dangerous poison breathing monster and might appear soon after D:22 so keep Rilia close. Heck, a basilisk can kill you quickly even with rPois on if it goes full beast mode breathing at you.
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Old March 20, 2019, 02:06   #23
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Thanks again for the input folks. I sort of failed to complete my goal since the preparation that I did was not sufficient enough for me to completely tackle D:29. I barely managed to escape death on that level after running out of missiles and food as well as running low on Phase Door Scrolls.

Complete N00b's Journey: Part 2-4

I ended up buying the Staff of speed, the ring of Free action (since I didn’t have enough for the gloves), one scroll of Phase Door (to get back up to the magic 20 scrolls), and 2 scrolls of recharging, as well as a Potion of Intellect from the Black market for ID purposes. I did store all of my artifacts in my home to try to free up some room for my next dive (I didn't read the advice to keep Rilia for rPois until after this run). After having a quick snack, I Recalled back to D:22 to begin this run. Finding the staircase to D:23 was quick enough, but I was soon greeted with an uninteresting level that yielded nothing of note, so I quickly went down to D:24, where I eat-id’d a mushroom of stoneskin, read-id'd a scroll of acquirement which gave me a heavy crossbow of power (x4) (+10, +15), and soon got to level 23. D:25 was where I found the artifact helmet 'Holhenneth' [7, +10] that gave +2 intelligence, +2 wisdom, and +2 searching skill, which was enough of an upgrade to the Hard Leather Cap of Wisdom that I dropped it, since I feel that sustain wisdom wasn't too useful at this point in the stage. Upon descending to D:26, I began establishing a stash to try to lighten the load and pray that I don’t run into a trap door or a nexus-induced teleport. I ran into a pack of dark hounds, most of which went down to orb of draining, while the rest got killed by Arrows of Slay Animal. A fire trap destroyed my staff of Teleportation, which really stank for me. A priest summoning a multi-hued dragon further compounded problems for me, as I dropped below 50% HP from the breaths that it directed me. Upon clearing the level, I quaff-id'd a potion of Toughness, which unfortunately drained my wisdom to boost my Constitution. Ouch. Upon descent to D:27, I found Dwarven Metal Scale Mail (-2) [38, +18], which had slightly better AC than the Chain mail of Arvedui, but it's properties were rather weaker, which consisted of +2 STR, +1 CON, +5 Infravision, and free action. D:28 was home to Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang, but before I encountered Ulwarth, I reached level 24 by killing a colbran and a lesser Maia. Ulwarth went down to many uses of Orbs of Draining, but failed to drop any useful items. I also read-id'd a scroll of aggravate monster before descending to D:29. Upon arrival to D:29, I found myself situated next to an eye vault. After use-id'ing and dropping a staff of detect invisible, I proceeded to clear the eye vault with major repetitions of speed boosts, elemental ring activations, and liberal uses of orb of draining and scrolls of Phase Door. I found a better Leather Shield [8, +6], a Ring of Strength <+2>, and a ring of Open Wounds, the last of which I discarded. During my crusade to clear the level, I accidentally ran into a disenchanter mold, who damaged my cloak of protection, and got a ring of Flames [+11]. The key moment, was where I ran into Mim and his sons, who were a real pain in the ass to deal with, as Khim managed to disenchant my Short Bow of Power, and my orbs of Draining were not taking out enough of his HP in order to make a dent. I ended up using almost all of my arrows of Slay animal, and quite a few scrolls of Phase Door to take out Khim. After an onslaught of acid bolts from Mim that damaged quite a bit of my equipment, I decided to cut my losses (since Orb of Draining wasn’t making enough of a dent, and I was out of regular Arrows and food, and running low on scrolls of Phase Door) and Recall back to town to a fresh inventory check. Not before discovery of a wand of clone monster, though. I bought 20 scrolls of Phase Door, 5 scrolls of charging, 11 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds, and a potion of restore life levels (for id purposes). Oh and I learned the prayer of Dispel Evil.

When this character begins another run, I plan to have Nedandon go to D:33 and clear that level as the next goal to pursue. If things get hairy and I end up running out of missiles (I'm definitely buying a hell of a lot more this time around), Cure Critical Wounds potions, or Phase Door scrolls, I am terminating this part, recalling back to the town, and posting the results to you guys for re-alignment.

Should I still stick with my weakened short bow of power, or switch to the heavy crossbow of power? Either way, I'm buying AT LEAST 80 missiles of the appropriate weapons, as 40 shots was far from enough to deal with the creatures in this run.

For worthwhile items, the black market has 4 Potions of Berserk Strength and the Alchemist has 4 additional potions of Restore Life Levels. Are any of these potions worth buying?

Should I stick with my Chain Mail of Arvedui, or wear my Dwarven Scale Mail instead? And which items are worth taking with me, and white items should stay home?

I'm guessing the Defender Mace is still the weapon of choice until I get better stats?

Having my staff of teleportation destroyed was a serious bummer, as I now have no reliable way of escaping monsters other than my scrolls of phase door. Also, the magic shop apparently decided to take the additional staves off the shelves, leaving me very vulnerable in that regard.

I plan to do a full explore of D:29 to make up for not being able to clear the level before moving any deeper. I would like to know of any special creatures that I need to know about in my attempt to clear D:33.

Which prayers should I learn right now? Going by the guides that I found, I got all the ones that were deemed remotely useful.

Nedandon's status has been updated, and I would appreciate any answers to the above questions, as well as additional tips.

Last edited by wizard44; March 20, 2019 at 02:20.
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Old March 20, 2019, 06:01   #24
Sphara
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Shooting with Heavy Crossbow is definitely your most damaging physical attack atm by a long margin. You're going to be slowed wielding it however as it weighs almost as much as Arvedui. Bolts also weigh a bit more than arrows.

Put on the (+2) strength ring preferably switching [+14] protection ring. Even that won't keep you being unencumbered if you wanna wear Arvedui at the same time. Only extra resistance Arvedui provides is nexus resistance.

Some lighter armor, heavy x-bow, some bolts, STR ring and storing some ?recharging and !CCW at home should keep you comfortably at normal speed while having this new, 2x more damaging ranged attack.

And regarding to your little hazards with disenchantment, Rilia has rDisen hidden in it. Wearing rDisen protects all your equipment from attempts to disenchant it. I'm guessing you don't mind me giving you spoilery artifact info here?
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Old March 20, 2019, 07:31   #25
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Holhenneth is great.

Also, don't get a habit of "clear levels". There is no reason for that and it will eventually kill you. Leave, when it gets dangerous.
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Old March 20, 2019, 12:04   #26
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Well everyone, Nedandon has successfully managed to clear D:33, but with quite a few mishaps along the way.

Complete N00b’s Journey: Part 2-5

In my attempt to charge my staff of speed to a decent level, I ended up blowing it up, meaning that the scrolls of recharging were useless as of now, and were promptly stored at home. Wore back my lighter leather armor (it was lying outside the home), and found that the burden level was actually LESS than if I was wearing the chain mail of Avredui (due to the strength bonus that Avredui provides). I acquired a supply of 80 bolts, and headed off to my next dive. Upon returning to D:29, I nearly had my life ended by an emperor wight, whose nether bolts put me to the low hit point warnings multiple times. Orb of draining really saved my ass here. Sangahyando of Umbar and Angamaite of Umbar greeted me in this level as well, who went down to many many bolts from my crossbow of power. They dropped a Blessed Katana (3d5) (+7, +7) <+1 WIS> and the Hard Leather Armour of Himring [20, +15]. Other items that I use-id’d were a Mushroom of Terror, before running into a trap door caused me to lose my stash there, which included 9 potions of Cure Critical Wounds and that Katana. Since I didn’t get to finish the dungeon level (and it already felt dangerous enough, I felt compelled to repeat that level by going back up. In this second run, I finally found a potion of Strength through quaff-id, which really eased up my burden problem, and got to level 26. I also found a ring of Light, which was somewhat useful item to hold in my inventory, and a trident of *Slay Demon* that was not worth taking. This complete exploration had no problems, so I then proceeded to go to D:30. D:30, was where I had a rematch with Ibun, Son of Mim. This time, I was ready for him and rained a hellfire of bolts and orbs of draining to deal with him. After having several of my scrolls destroyed, I managed to kill Ibun, and acquire the Long Sword ‘Anduril’ (3d5) (+10, +15) [+10] <+4 STR, +4 DEX>, which was WELL worth the battle in my opinion. It was also the level where I finally found a scroll of Deep descent through read-id. I skipped all the way down to D:36, which was a very nerve-wracking experience in my attempt to work my way back up to D:33. I eat-id’d a mushroom of Vigor while I thought about my situation.

D:36 proved to be a hassle to get out of, as quite a few attempts to use Sense Surroundings to find the upstairs weren’t successful. Complicating the matter was the plethora of Uniques and other dangerous monsters that was detected in nearby vaults and areas. Meanwhile, a gray wraith, a mumak, and a mature gold dragon really caused problems for me, as I attempted to find the stairs, as did Bill, the Stone Troll. I was barely able to escape with the help of my potion of speed and several potions of Cure critical Wounds. D:35 was a much more straightforward, as the upstairs was a tad closer, and the path wasn’t riddled with uniques to avoid. D:34 required a round of level reloading before I could find a pathway back up to D:33. On the way back up, I picked up a wand, which turned out to be a Wand of Frost Bolts when zapped. Upon arriving in D:33, I picked up a ring of Lightning [+18] and a ring of Constitution, the former which I kept. After D:33, I also reached level 27 and picked up a wand of Stone to Mud. I then Recalled back to town, where I bought 40 standard bolts, a set of Alchemists’s Gloves, 30 bolts (+4, +4), and a Potion of Healing the latter two which came from the Black Market. Oh, and I killed Farmer Maggot for kicks in the Town.

So the next goal for this guy: Get to and clear D:37.

What do you guys think should be my weapon and armor of choice? The selection of weapons and armor that I have are in my inventory and my home.

Is it necessary to have Maxxed stats before proceeding to D:38 and further? I read in one of the guides that doing so is necessary before venturing to that depth level.

Which creatures can show up between D:33 and D:37? I sort of had some close calls in this run, and I hope that I will be better prepared to find out which creatures will kill me if I engage.

Which items should I take with me, and which should I leave at home? I’m particularly interested in which rings should be ditched entirely.

I’ve updated Nedandon’s status on the ladder, and I would appreciate any answers to the above questions, as well as additional tips.

Last edited by wizard44; March 20, 2019 at 20:33.
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Old March 20, 2019, 13:20   #27
Sideways
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Is it necessary to have Maxxed stats before proceeding to D:38 and further? I read in one of the guides that doing so is necessary before venturing to that depth level.
Absolutely not, it is possible to play that way but it's very much out of fashion. Play-styles have changed dramatically since those guides were written, and monsters and objects have also changed, making that part of the game less dangerous than it used to be - though it can still kill you...

If you're really going to completely clear levels you need to be super-buff for the depth - otherwise (like Mondkalb said) you will die - but even that approach won't require maxing your stats before 1900'. (It might have done way back in Angband 2.x, before the monster list changes, at least in the case of CON because you'd need bags of HP.)

Most people here, though, will strongly advise you not to use a level-clearing approach in the first place So even less need to max your stats.
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Old March 22, 2019, 13:11   #28
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Nedandon is still alive and is about to enter a crossroads in his quest to kill Morgoth.

Complete N00b’s Journey: Part 2-6

I decided to keep Anduril and the scale mail of Arvedui, while keeping Rilia for poison resistance. I then Recalled back to D:33 and found the stairs to D:34 without too much trouble, although water hound breathing caused my staff of mapping to be destroyed, my leather shield to be damaged, quite a few of my bolts to be destroyed. I did pick up a wand of lightning balls, before I descended though. D:34 had a rod of Illumination as the only notable item, which I did not take. Upon descending to D:35, I found and quaff-id’d a potion of Brawn, which was a rather welcome find as it took away from my intelligence to give me some needed strength. D:35 was also host to Uldor the Accursed, who dropped a Holy Book of Prayers [Ethereal Openings] upon his death. Some its useful prayers were Blink, Teleport Self, and Teleport Other, which I learned on the spot. Feeling a need to descend quickly, I went to D:36 where I quaff-id’d a potion of Intelligence, the only interesting item that I found. D:37 was host to two Potions of Strength, a Rod of Fire Bolts, 2 Scrolls of Protection from Evil, several potions of enlightenment, and several potions of resist poison, all of which were use-id’d. The only dangerous monster was an Ancient Black Dragon, which Orbs of Draining and bolts resolved with ease. I ended up clearing the level with no problem. Before I left the level to Recall back to town, I picked up a ring of Accuracy. I then bought 47 Bolts to bring back my total ammunition to 80 missiles and saved the game.

The next goal: Get to D:41, and try to clear it, if possible.

Is it a good idea to go to D:41 with the stuff I have now, or should I stay on these levels to try to increase my attributes further before descending? I’ve heard arguments for both ways, so I want to make a final asking before deciding to descend further?

Which weapon/armor is the best for me from here on out? I’ve gained some strength, so I could swing Rilia twice. My chief worry is the priest penalty for doing so.

How bad are Ancient Multi-Hued Dragons and Drolems are for me? I’ve heard that these two creatures should start showing up soon, and that poison resistance is mandatory. Will their poison attacks STILL be enough to kill me? Are there other creature that I should watch out for in particular, as well?

Which items should I take with me, and which should I leave at home? I’m particularly interested in which rings should be ditched, as my home has piled up quite a few of those.

I’ve updated Nedandon’s status on the ladder, and I would appreciate any answers to the above questions, as well as additional tips.
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Old March 22, 2019, 13:30   #29
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How bad are Ancient Multi-Hued Dragons and Drolems are for me? I’ve heard that these two creatures should start showing up soon, and that poison resistance is mandatory. Will their poison attacks STILL be enough to kill me?
With your HP, poison resistance won't make any difference against a drolem It will kill you either way, it's just a matter of whether you die with -500 HP or -50.

AMHD breaths are slightly less bad (with emphasis on the "slightly"), but AMHDs are also more common than drolems and breathe more often. At this point in the game, do not fight either drolems or AMHDs.
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Old March 22, 2019, 14:04   #30
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Choosing weapon depends on your play style (melee/ranged/spell is your main way of dealing damage?).
+4 STR from Anduril is useful, rDis is not really needed (Mim and company are disenchanters in the early game but to be honest I don't remember any other monsters till the 80's which does that).
Please note that you currently don't have regen. Your stealth is still excellent, but as written above, you still want to avoid some monsters (AMHD is not only strong but also twice as fast as you if I remember correctly).
I'm not sure if you know it, elemental fire/cold/acid/elec/poison damage is cut to 1/3 if you have either permanent (items) or temp (potions/spells/activations) resist, cut to 1/9 if you have both.

From your home I would drop these items:
- Ring of Accuracy
- Ring of Free Action (you don't want to waste a precious ring slot for FA)
- Ring of Protection (elemental rings are better, they provide some attack and additionally temporary resist)
- Satisfy Hunger scrolls (food/scroll is cheap, does not worth an extra slot)
- All basic books (you can buy them)
- Ring of Ice (could be used for temporary resist but you probably won't use it ever)
- Ring of Acid (same as Ice, though for rAcid there is no potion)
- Dethanc
- Elvagil

It's worth to start collecting items in your home for the end-game, once you find them (teleport self/level scrolls, healing/*healing/life/mana potions at least, but you can also save banishment and mass banishment scrolls - please note that you can cancel banishment when the game asks you to choose a symbol so you don't even need to waste the first scroll and staff).
Also having only 2 WoR scrolls is risky, one you use for going down, if the other one is burnt, you can't recall until you find another one.
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