Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 21, 2011, 14:50   #1
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Flickering monsters and starting color

Hello.

I just lost fight against Morgoth because one of its summons was not what I though it was. Those flickering monsters are confusing, because you can't tell what they are immediately from the screen and because of that they can "impersonate" something else. This was background Nightwalker that looked like Black Wraith doing nether ball followed by M manastorm.

Real time flickering can't be used because that slows game to crawl (seriously like slow 386) and entire overhead term window flickers (in windows XP. I believe this bug is still not fixed?).

My suggestion is that when flickering monster gets spawned it gets its actual color, not some random one. It was a bit confusing to see five white dragons and monster list shows one Law, one Multi-hued, two Many Colors and just one White. I hate to look monster list to get actual monsters instead of looking at the screen.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2011, 17:00   #2
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Hello.

I just lost fight against Morgoth because one of its summons was not what I though it was. Those flickering monsters are confusing, because you can't tell what they are immediately from the screen and because of that they can "impersonate" something else. This was background Nightwalker that looked like Black Wraith doing nether ball followed by M manastorm.

Real time flickering can't be used because that slows game to crawl (seriously like slow 386) and entire overhead term window flickers (in windows XP. I believe this bug is still not fixed?).

My suggestion is that when flickering monster gets spawned it gets its actual color, not some random one. It was a bit confusing to see five white dragons and monster list shows one Law, one Multi-hued, two Many Colors and just one White. I hate to look monster list to get actual monsters instead of looking at the screen.
Your "slow to a crawl" bug is faithfully captured as ticket #1265 - it's not fixed because whoever can reproduce it can't/hasn't fixed it. Eddie is the only other person who has mentioned being able to reproduce it, AFAIK, and I don't know if he's fixed it in his local version. (Eddie specifically mentioned that using the map window slows the game independently of flickering, so there may be two separate bugs here.) I don't think any of the dev team (including fizzix, who uses Windows) can reproduce this slowness.

On colours, it's fine for ATTR_FLICKER monsters to start as their base colour (don't they already?). I'm not sure that ATTR_MULTI monsters *have* a base colour - what is the base colour of AMHDs or GWoMCs??
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2011, 17:12   #3
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
On colours, it's fine for ATTR_FLICKER monsters to start as their base colour (don't they already?).
Apparently not. As I said in my post I saw five white dragons, one being Law Wyrm, which is flickering and blue at base color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
I'm not sure that ATTR_MULTI monsters *have* a base colour - what is the base colour of AMHDs or GWoMCs??
Violet I think. I think color definition is required in monster.txt for every monster, otherwise you get an error. Even ATTR_CLEAR monsters have base color (in Trapper case it is white).
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2011, 17:25   #4
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Your "slow to a crawl" bug is faithfully captured as ticket #1265 - it's not fixed because whoever can reproduce it can't/hasn't fixed it. Eddie is the only other person who has mentioned being able to reproduce it, AFAIK, and I don't know if he's fixed it in his local version. (Eddie specifically mentioned that using the map window slows the game independently of flickering, so there may be two separate bugs here.) I don't think any of the dev team (including fizzix, who uses Windows) can reproduce this slowness.
Flickering is much worse than general slowdown, because when it is activated effect just multiplies, when not it apparently just causes a lot of calculations to get new color / movement. I actually can hear it in my other computer, whenever there is flickering monster on the screen and I try to run some fan inside the box increases RPM to cool down whatever it is cooling (display card probably, in my other box display card cooling is passive and doesn't make any noise).

To reproduce activate overhead term window. Without it slowdown either doesn't exist or is much smaller (at least until flickering monster is in main screen).

There is general slowdown too, but that is much smaller effect. Usually you notice the slowdown from some fast monster or monsters tracking you when you run along a corridor. At early levels packs of dogs and hounds are usual cause. Note that you don't need to see them in overhead or main screen, it is enough that they are there.

Main problem with flickering on is not the slowdown, it is the fact that entire overhead screen flickers with it. It is like if someone is pointing a strobe-light in your face. Intolerable.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2011, 22:49   #5
myshkin
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
myshkin is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Your "slow to a crawl" bug is faithfully captured as ticket #1265 - it's not fixed because whoever can reproduce it can't/hasn't fixed it. Eddie is the only other person who has mentioned being able to reproduce it, AFAIK, and I don't know if he's fixed it in his local version. (Eddie specifically mentioned that using the map window slows the game independently of flickering, so there may be two separate bugs here.) I don't think any of the dev team (including fizzix, who uses Windows) can reproduce this slowness.
I just gave it a shot and couldn't reproduce it. Timo, is it necessary for the flickering monster to show up in the overhead view subwindow for the slowness and map flickering to occur, or does the flickering monster just have to be in the main window? Do you have a savefile and preferences file that we can use for testing purposes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
On colours, it's fine for ATTR_FLICKER monsters to start as their base colour (don't they already?). I'm not sure that ATTR_MULTI monsters *have* a base colour - what is the base colour of AMHDs or GWoMCs??
Makes sense to me, too. I've made this change, which will be in our next dev release (hopefully tomorrow).
myshkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2011, 02:43   #6
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by myshkin View Post
I just gave it a shot and couldn't reproduce it. Timo, is it necessary for the flickering monster to show up in the overhead view subwindow for the slowness and map flickering to occur, or does the flickering monster just have to be in the main window? Do you have a savefile and preferences file that we can use for testing purposes?
Savefile can't cause it because I can reproduce it with any savefile as soon as there is flickering monster in sight. And with all computers I have tried. Fonts?

I use 6X12X.FON in overhead window.

Here is contents of my .ini:

Code:
[Angband]
Graphics=0
Bigtile=0
Sound=0
Graphics_Nice=1
TileWidth=1
TileHeight=1
[Term-0]
Visible=1
Font=10X20X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=10
TileHgt=20
NumCols=80
NumRows=24
PositionX=333
PositionY=6
Maximized=0
[Term-1]
Visible=1
Font=6X12X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=6
TileHgt=12
NumCols=159
NumRows=47
PositionX=939
PositionY=545
Maximized=0
[Term-2]
Visible=1
Font=8X16X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=16
NumCols=75
NumRows=35
PositionX=329
PositionY=543
Maximized=0
[Term-3]
Visible=1
Font=8X16X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=16
NumCols=94
NumRows=32
PositionX=1143
PositionY=6
Maximized=0
[Term-4]
Visible=0
Font=8X12X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=13
NumCols=80
NumRows=24
PositionX=90
PositionY=60
Maximized=0
[Term-5]
Visible=0
Font=8X12X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=13
NumCols=80
NumRows=24
PositionX=60
PositionY=40
Maximized=0
[Term-6]
Visible=0
Font=8X12X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=13
NumCols=80
NumRows=24
PositionX=30
PositionY=20
Maximized=0
[Term-7]
Visible=0
Font=8X12X.FON
Bizarre=1
TileWid=8
TileHgt=13
NumCols=80
NumRows=24
PositionX=0
PositionY=0
Maximized=0
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2011, 02:51   #7
myshkin
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
myshkin is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Savefile can't cause it because I can reproduce it with any savefile as soon as there is flickering monster in sight. And with all computers I have tried. Fonts?

I use 6X12X.FON in overhead window.
My main concern in getting a savefile and a preference file was to ensure that we have the exact options, including subwindow choices, that you're using. Does turning off animate_flicker stop the behavior for you? I know Eddie reported that at least some of it happened for him with animate_flicker off.
myshkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2011, 03:13   #8
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by myshkin View Post
My main concern in getting a savefile and a preference file was to ensure that we have the exact options, including subwindow choices, that you're using. Does turning off animate_flicker stop the behavior for you? I know Eddie reported that at least some of it happened for him with animate_flicker off.
No, still happens with animate_flicker off. Only just when I move instead of constantly.

There is generic slowdown doesn't require flickering monster, it is enough that there is something fast tracking your movements nearby (doesn't need to be visible), but screen flicker and enormous slowdown happens only with flickering monsters.

save+pref attached (zipped).
Attached Files
File Type: zip save_pref.zip (15.4 KB, 97 views)
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Color scheme bug Timo Pietilš Development 10 June 4, 2010 19:16
Color prefs Pete Mack Vanilla 4 January 25, 2010 20:33
Changing farmer Maggot's dogs color fph Vanilla 12 November 23, 2009 20:46
[Fea-Req] Less <color> monsters Kiyoshi Aman Vanilla 21 February 5, 2008 14:51
Stupid Idea - Color Pits Djabanete Variants 7 October 29, 2007 21:55


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.